Fact: Zion was willing to kill millions in order to win the war.

Fact: The Machines were willing to kill millions in order to stay in control.

Fact: None of this matters anymore because we have a truce and times have changed.

Fact: If we all continue to distrust each other and not work together we are all going to war again.

Fact: Zion was willing to kill millions in order to win the war.

Fact: The Machines were willing to kill millions in order to stay in control.

Fact: None of this matters anymore because we have a truce and times have changed.

Fact: If we all continue to distrust each other and not work together we are all going to war again.

<inflammatory remark removed>

Humanity was on the brink of extinction in the hands of the Machines. A dead Neo doesn't save the Matrix. An unsaved Matrix and destroyed Zion is the end of humanity. There is no shutting it down to save the innered when every bluepill has been taken over by the Smith virus. If so, it would have been done before Neo ever got the the Machine City. If so, the Machines would have killed Neo on the spot when he called their bluff and told them to kill him if he was wrong about them needing him to save the Matrix. Go watch the movies again and stop trying to contrive arguments that don't exist. The Machines were perfectly willing to let humanity's existence end.

A debate on this topic would mean you could actually say something to prove that this statement by Illyria is not wrong: "There is no threat of the extinction of the human race while the Machines still exist."    

It is wrong.

There have been plenty of personal attacks on the issue of Morpheus which is quite irrelevant. Morpheus is either dead or alive. Zion will find the truth behind these transmissions while you continue your personal attacks and trolling. There is nothing you can do to change that. 

<inflammatory remark removed>

I'm not attacking you or trolling. 

The machines need humanity because they supply them power.  It would be illogical for them to let humanity die.  That'd be like a man forsaking oxygen.  It'd be suicide!  Another point your missing is that the Machines grow humans.  Endless fields of babies surround the perimeter of the Power Plant that aren't attached to the Matrix yet.  If Smith was unstoppable, they'd only have to wipe the Matrix and start over like they've done before.  (Now please take into consideration that I have absolutely no expertise in how the Matrix operates. I'm only presuming based on what I've seen and read.)

But that wasn't necessary.  Why?  Well because Neo was on his way to save the day!  Neo could stop Smith and he did.  So why didn't they roll out the red carpet?  Because as we all saw, they didn't have to.  What happened, happened and could not have happened any other way, to quote Morpheus.  Neo had to loose Trinity in order to give him the edge he needed to defeat Smith.  Maybe they knew that.  Maybe they were attacking with the intent of killing her only.  Who knows.  Unless we ask Deus we won't ever know.  We can only speculate on both sides of the fence.

But as GamiSB and Pyraci have already mentioned, this debate will never end.  I can vouch for that having been on these boards for the last 3 years.  So in the end, I'll just have to agree to disagree with you.

/tiphat

Illyria22 wrote:

What Garu said. 

 

Illyria

((LAMORZ!!1! )

Garu said what I believe, just much more eloquently.  But I see from the comment beneath mine that some people don't care much for eloquence, do they? 

Illyria

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

What Garu said. 

 

Illyria

((LAMORZ!!1! )

Garu said what I believe, just much more eloquently.  But I see from the comment beneath mine that some people don't care much for eloquence, do they? 

 

 

Illyria

Illyria22 wrote:

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

What Garu said. 

 

Illyria

((LAMORZ!!1! )

Garu said what I believe, just much more eloquently.  But I see from the comment beneath mine that some people don't care much for eloquence, do they? 

 

 

Illyria

((No, Lyr, that post just struck me as a lazy way to argue, that's all, which is why I answered in kind. If I had known, however, that an OOC comment would have been held against me, naturally I would have endeavored to be more articulate and expressive in calling you on your "yeah, what he said" post. *obligatory wink and stuck-out tongue here*))

This simply shows the lack of intelligence of Shi+Xin+Feng.  When you can't come up with decent reasoning, insult the woman you're debating.

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

Shi+Xin+Feng wrote:

Illyria22 wrote:

What Garu said. 

 

Illyria

((LAMORZ!!1! )

Garu said what I believe, just much more eloquently.  But I see from the comment beneath mine that some people don't care much for eloquence, do they? 

 

 

Illyria

((No, Lyr, that post just struck me as a lazy way to argue, that's all, which is why I answered in kind. If I had known, however, that an OOC comment would have been held against me, naturally I would have endeavored to be more articulate and expressive in calling you on your "yeah, what he said" post. *obligatory wink and stuck-out tongue here*))

This simply shows the lack of intelligence of Shi+Xin+Feng.  When you can't come up with decent reasoning, insult the woman you're debating.

 

And why not? It seems to work for you.

Besides, I'd hardly call the "yeah, what he said" argument a valid debate point.  Didn't your parents teach you that when you jump into the middle of a conversation that doesn't even concern you, kiddo, you should keep your mouth shut and let the grown folks speak?

((They sure didn't teach me that!))

Fatmop wrote:

((They sure didn't teach me that!))

(Well all know they didn't, Kelleh )