How did smith evovle into so many copies?

**DarkRevenantW**

No need to debate any further. Digitize nailed it on the head with his second post.

digitize wrote:

The Architect never said anything about Neo's powers needing to be balanced out, that was the Oracle (in the last movie, well after Smith had been cloning himself all over the place). In previous iterations of the Matrix, there was no Smith virus -- the One's powers were not balanced by anything, yet it did not cause a problem for the fulfillment of the so-called prophecy. So I don't think that Smith was "given" powers, they were a fluke caused by parts of him being overwritten/copied by Neo.

Can remember what scene it was, it was either after Neo beat the Agents outside the door and noticed they had upgrades or when Smith copied himself into Bane.

He said something along the lines of...

Just like before.
Looks at the freshly copied Smith.
Well, almost just like last time.

FeralBoy

phi wrote:

It is recognised that the point at which Neo killed Smith is when Smith went from relatively normal agent (he seemed more emotional than other Agents), to the crazed multiplying machine.

The thing that always made me curious is Smith's apparent lack of knowledge of the cycles in M1 and his "newfound" knowledge of them in M2. I come to the conclusion that he didn't know about them in M1, because he seems to be under the impression that if he can just get the access codes to Zion, everything will be over with. But since everything repeats, theoretically he would be right back in the Matrix the next day, at it again.

But based on what I know of the Pandora's Boxes, the agents DO know about the cycles. After all, they encountered the soldier agents from the previous version, and I'm sure they knew what they were and where they came from.

So the question then is if Smith knew about the cycles, why would he think he would be free if he could get the access codes to Zion? Are agents only allowed to exist for one cycle and then have to return to the Source to be deleted? Apparently they get upgraded with every iteration, so this might not be far from the truth.

The last question is what exactly happens when an agent returns to the Source. When I re-read Agent Gray's original description from way back in beta, it said that because he was under quarantine to be studied for the Smith virus, he was "not allowed" to return to the Source. That choice of words makes it sound like returning to the Source is actually desirable for agents. Why would ceasing to exist be desirable? Am I missing something?

**phi**

When a program returns to the source, from what I can discern, it is analysed for useful data/code. That code and data is then re-inserted into the source database and the program is deleted.

If a virus or bad code that does not conform to the rules of the system is reinserted as part of this code the results could be permanantly fatal for most of the machines and pod-inhabitants.

Sometimes if a program returns to the source it is upgraded, but usually they face valuable-asset reclaimation and deletion.

Message Edited by phi on 06.16.2006 02:17 PM
Message edited by phi on 06/15/2006 20:17:47.

FeralBoy

phi wrote:

When a program returns to the source, from what I can discern, it is analysed for useful data/code. That code and data is then re-inserted into the source database and the program is deleted.

If a virus or bad code that does not conform to the rules of the system is reinserted as part of this code the results could be permanantly fatal for most of the machines and pod-inhabitants.

Sometimes if a program returns to the source it is upgraded, but usually they face valuable-asset reclaimation and deletion.

Message Edited by phi on 06.16.200602:17 PM

Interesting. I wonder if agents are different than other sentient programs as far as their relation to the Source goes and how they are treated. I do remember when I re-read the biography of Dame White a couple days ago that it mentioned something about an "existence in the Source"--almost as if a sentient program can live in the Source in the same way that it can live in the Matrix. There was no clarification as to what it meant, but that little blurb is part of the reason that I wanted to look into this.

**Illyria22**

The agents from the PB's know about the different versions of the Matrix because they were from these previous versions. I don't think the agents we see in the movies knew about them, since Smith seemed to think once they got the codes to Zion it would be destroyed for good. It was only after Smith became a virus that he appeared to know about the cycles ('It's happening just as before.'). And now, because Zion wasn't destroyed and the Matrix wasn't reset, the current agents know about them too.

As for programs returning to the Source -- and Agent Gray wanting to do this -- it may not necessarily mean destruction for all of them. Gray doesn't strike me as having a death wish! Some programs may be 'recycled', by wiping their memories and stripping them down to their original programming. It would be much more efficient to do that with complex, resource-intense programs like agents, rather than starting over from scratch.

Illyria

**ZippyTheSquirrel**

Illyria22 wrote:

It was only after Smith became a virus that he appeared to know about the cycles ('It's happening just as before.').

Well, you know, he coulda taken over a program that knew.

Illyria22 wrote:

As for programs returning to the Source -- and Agent Gray wanting to do this -- it may not necessarily mean destruction for all of them.

When a program returns to The Source, and discover they're bound for deletion, they have a choice to continue and be "killed", or return to The Matrix or hide in The Real as an Exile.

....

I don't think I contributed anything in this post.

**TimeMaker**

What I always thought he did to copy himself was overwrite the code in the bluepills body. They just figured they were sleeping, not takein over.

Smith used 2 VERY simple key strokes.

CtrlC and CtrlV

SiphonLife

:smileyhappy:

TimeMaker wrote:

What I always thought he did to copy himself was overwrite the code in the bluepills body. They just figured they were sleeping, not takein over.

Smith used 2 VERY simple key strokes.

CtrlC and CtrlV

so agents always had the ability to copy themselves just not in so many forms?.. i mean im starting to get the point but why would he need to.. why sacrifice the matrix just to kill one person(s) couldnt you in the matrix kill that person and be done.. why must he Evolve into milions of smithites.. when he can use the other agents as back up? i mean come on ..

SiphonLife

or let the sentinels take care of them ... or the machines

**ZippyTheSquirrel**

Now you're thinking along the lines that Smith was sane during his viral days.

SiphonLife

i am.. why is that?:smileymad:

TheRedeemed

I believe the line you guys are looking for is right after Neo fights the Upgraded Agents. Smith says to the second Smith, "It's
happening exactly as before." Then the other Smith says, "Well, not
EXACTLY." with a huge emphisis on exactly. What i believe has already
been stated, that a similar, THOUGH NOT EXACT event occured, though it
never reached the point as it does in Matrix 3 because the previous
Ones went back to the source, preventing the Smith Virus to ever get
that much power.

~ J

Message Edited by TheRedeemed on 07.06.2006 08:03 PM
Message edited by TheRedeemed on 07/06/2006 19:03:36.

fowkes

OMG guys you need to refresh your memory of the films. You will then come to realize that it was not neo that Imprinted his code onto smith but infect it was the architect who did this, but as the oracle states the architect cannot see past any choice he makes because he does not understand them. Therefore Agent smith who in the first films shows signs of individualism by removing his earpeace as he told morpheus how he felt, clearly stating that he hated the matrix and also showed disgust for humanity. could he have developed these traits from the battles with the other versions of the one, who knows.

But in my opinion Smith already had the powers in question as he was developed to balance the equation of which was created by the one. knowing that the one returned to the source in the previous versions of the matrix then the architect had no reason to modify smith.

But because Neo was different unlike the others, because of his prolonged experience within the matrix the architect had only one option, smith had to no longer be bound to the rules of the system in order to successfully destroy Neo. As smith states in the final film his purpose was to defeat the one, that was why he was created, and when you go back to the second film in the mobile Ave a program speaks to neo about purpose and what happens to programs who no longer have a purpose, taking this into account it was essential that the smith program must have another purpose other than the destruction of the one, and what better purpose than being an agent of the system.

The architect chose to remove the binds placed on smith by the rules of the matrix. with no rules smith could remake the matrix as he saw fit just like the one could, yes thats right morpheus mentions that the one before neo could remake the matrix as he saw fit, if Neo had more experience as an operative of zion perhaps his powers would of reached such a level.

fowkes

In relation ot smith wanting the access codes in film 1, its because his secondary purpose was to purge the system of zion operatives, if he had the access code the machines could discover a way to block the pirate signal, elimating the purpose of the agents, therefore the agents would be scheduled for deletion.

But when you compare Smith to the other agents he seems to have his own personality as where the others seem to be more of a singular consciousness,