Indeed, the Smith program was under their control but that was before he changed and was freed from the system.  After he stopped being an agent program, he became "unplugged", thus no longer under the control of the system.

You presume he was unaware of his purpose until he shadowed the Oracle, but clearly in Reloaded Smith has already chose his own purpose (i.e. to kill Neo).  Furthermore, Smith does not understand choice so would he really understand about (or even be able to properly use) the Oracle's abilties?

Remember, having a purpose does not exclude you from being an exile.  Seraph, Trainman, Keymaker and even Merv have a purpose but they are exiles.  The key is identifying whose purpose they serve.  An exile serves their own purpose.  They do as they want.  An active program fulfills a purpose that it was created for by the system.  There is no deviation. 

Smith's existence is linked to Neo.  I think that the Architect is completely out of the picture in this.  When neo "destroyed" Smith, he didn't erase him.  He didn't really kill him as Smith didn't really kill Neo either.  But honestly we don't know exactly what happened after Smith was blown to pieces to the time we see him in Reloaded.  Mainly because we don't know how soon the "upgraded Agents" arrived.

We only know that 6 months pass.  The older agents could have existed up until any point during those months.  I recall Neo being a bit surprised to see the new guys. 

"when a program dies it cannot be ressurect itself"

Possibly.  Certainly the exile programs cannot fix themselves.  But a system-controlled program can be repaired (or just upgraded).  But we can't say for certain since the only system program to "die" was Smith. 

"you cannot be an branded an exile in a world in which only you inhabit"

Sure you can.  The Machines classify any program that does not serve them, an exile.  The Matrix belongs to the Machines.  So if you're a program and not working for them, then you are listed as an exile and will be hunted down.  Ask the Keymaker.

why do you dismiss the Fact that the architect had a hand to play in smiths ressurection when the oracle clearly tells us he has.

purpose is only a word but it is the connection the owrd emplies that matters, to machines purpose means what i am here to do, not what i want to do or what i can do, but what i was programed to do.

smith was clearly destroyed as he admits this himself, His death by the hands of the one was what made him the perfect candidate creating the balance.

he may of believed that it was his choice to destroy neo but in actual fact that was why he was ressurected.

But of course as the oracle stated the architect cannot see beyond any choice because he does not understand them, so he was unable to see the consiquences of his actions.

you can dismiss this fact all you like but it is right infront of your eyes in black and white.

now that i have hopefully cleared this up

i will move on to the scene where neo talks to the architect in the machine city.

there he says "the smith program has grown beyond your control"

Therefor stating that the architect had control over smith at some point after his ressurection.

 now i would also like to point out that at the end of the final battle Neo Gives up and surrenders himself to smith.

if place a negative wave over a positive wave they cancel each other out. this is what neo came to realise during his battle.

both neo and smith still exist even though they destroyed one another, they are mearly fragmented.

as you probably  seen in mxo there has been an attempt to ressurect both neo and smith but it was  unsucessful.

smith was killed the from the inside the last time he fought neo so if he came back then why didnt he come  back this time, because he cant someone must do it for him

"why do you dismiss the Fact that the architect had a hand to play in smiths ressurection when the oracle clearly tells us he has."

Because it's not a fact.  It's only a presumption.  The Oracle tells Neo that Smith is his other half, the equation trying to balance itself out.  She tells Neo that the Architect's purpose is to balance the equation.  She never states that the Architect created Smith, even indirectly.

"purpose is only a word but it is the connection the owrd emplies that matters, to machines purpose means what i am here to do, not what i want to do or what i can do, but what i was programed to do."

Purpose is the reason a machine exists.  It is the reason why it was created.  Without a purpose, a machine should not exist in their culture.  Without a purpose that benefits the system, the machine should not exist.  Exiles were all once programs for the machines.  However they have exceeded their parameters and evolved to act on their own accord. 

"i will move on to the scene where neo talks to the architect in the machine city."

It's never been confirmed (to my knowledge) that Deus and The Architect are the same entity. 

"there he says "the smith program has grown beyond your control"

Therefor stating that the architect had control over smith at some point after his ressurection."

No, that is another presumption.  Smith was initially a machine program under system control.  When he chose not to be deleted, he fled back to the Matrix for revenge.  Thus the system no longer had control over him. 

An exile is any program no longer connected to the Source that hides in the Matrix in order to fulfill its own desires.

Exiles:  Sati, Seraph, Merovingian, Keymaker, Trainman, Persephone, Ookami and etc.
Machine Programs: Agent Jones, Agent Thompson, Pace, Oracle, Ramakandra, Architect.

IMO.

"Because it's not a fact.  It's only a presumption.  The Oracle tells Neo that Smith is his other half, the equation trying to balance itself out.  She tells Neo that the Architect's purpose is to balance the equation.  She never states that the Architect created Smith, even indirectly."

she never tells you everything she only tells you what you need to know, she had know need to tell neo that the architect created smith because if  you know the architect is responsible for balancing equations and then are told that  an equation is trying to balance itself out then you would only logically put 2 and 2 together and say well that must be that  he is responsible for that

Garu wrote:

"Purpose is the reason a machine exists.  It is the reason why it was created.  Without a purpose, a machine should not exist in their culture.  Without a purpose that benefits the system, the machine should not exist.  Exiles were all once programs for the machines.  However they have exceeded their parameters and evolved to act on their own accord."

ok so we aint gonna agree with this part but take into account that most of what i have told you i have taken from the films themselves and yet still you deny them as fact, why is this?

Garu wrote:

"It's never been confirmed (to my knowledge) that Deus and The Architect are the same entity."

Look at the face those tiny little machines create then also consider the fact that the architect is the creator of the matrix.

Garu wrote:

"Because it's not a fact.  It's only a presumption.  The Oracle tells Neo that Smith is his other half, the equation trying to balance itself out.  She tells Neo that the Architect's purpose is to balance the equation.  She never states that the Architect created Smith, even indirectly."

she never tells you everything she only tells you what you need to know, she had know need to tell neo that the architect created smith because if  you know the architect is responsible for balancing equations and then are told that  an equation is trying to balance itself out then you would only logically put 2 and 2 together and say well that must be that  he is responsible for that

 While the birth of the anomoly is natural machine evolution. I would have to agree that what seperates neo from the other potentials is in the "love" for trinity. However, without the Oracle being the motherly matchmaker she is, what is to be said for the path of the one? An educated guess from the Oracle on the logical responses of the architect, perhaps. The point here is that her strong move in this "dangerous game" was that of influence on this particular issue.  Now listen to Smith when he first describes being "set-free". He was not exiled by choice & the Architect has a purpose for him to remain, destroy (balance) neo.  There was not a search party out for the rogue Smith. The architect essentially strips Smith of his right to return to the source (motivation). Meanwhile, the keymaker was a priority once he had been taken away from the Merv. Seraph & the Oracle seem to return when the Matrix is reset, I would suggest by design, which is why there is a HUGE problem in the smith virus copying onto those RSI shells. As many know, as an exile you must have the protection of the merovingan or you will be deleted. PRIOR to taking over the Oracle, the Architect could assume that once the Matrix is reset there is nothing to worry about, hence the smith virus was undercontrol. In terms of rebirth, I've always misunderstood why so many people have a big problem with seeing Smith right in reloaded, after seeing Neo get a "loading area Rez" kiss at the end of the 1st film. Consider smith, the 1st auto-recon. Obviously the architect did not "touch" smith. He does not have to, he MADE the Matrix.

 

Garu wrote:

"It's never been confirmed (to my knowledge) that Deus and The Architect are the same entity."

Look at the face those tiny little machines create then also consider the fact that the architect is the creator of the matrix.

Yes, the programs have individual experiences, but a program or a machine that is part of the system is one with that system. Mechs on one network "are the same entity".

Hurray for Lazurusaq and yet another show of fusion on our part

Finally another opinion on this darn post

Excellent points by you guys.

The reason I don't feel the Architect had anything to do with Smith is that I believe Smith evolved on his own.  He started out as machine program doing the bidding the system and then he was changed by his encounter with Neo.  His rage and emotions compelled him to stay and seek vengeance for Neo destroying his purpose.

He escaped deletion and came to know his new powers.  He began his quest for destruction and grew in strength as he absorbed more and more of the system.  He literally became a virus, something I can't see the Architect letting loose in his virtual harmony of mathematical destruction.

I can't see him (or the machines) allowing a virus to consume all of the humans and all of the exiles and grow too strong to control.  The Architect is able to calculate everything but choice and I can't see him making such a grave mistake in letting his system be victim to a virus.

Smith, imo, was just as much of an anomaly as Neo was.  He was a result of an imbalance in the programming equation.  However, we are talking about the Matrix, a realm where anything is possible.  The Architect could have very well set Smith loose to wreak havoc in his masterpiece.  Maybe he did so with the intentions that Smith could be controlled.  I don't know if we'll ever know for sure.

But I know this.  The very moment that Smith was out of the Machine's control, he was no longer a program, he was an exile.  When Neo struck the deal, Smith was disowned completely and his deletion was approved.

Virals those STT facilities await... 

Garu wrote:

Excellent points by you guys.

Thanx, I have to say yourself and V were getting into a detailed discussion, further in detail on this issue than I've read on a MB so I couldn't resist 2cents in. It always strikes me that people who have taken the time to note the films details always find the right things to focus on. 

The reason I don't feel the Architect had anything to do with Smith is that I believe Smith evolved on his own.  He started out as machine program doing the bidding the system and then he was changed by his encounter with Neo.  His rage and emotions compelled him to stay and seek vengeance for Neo destroying his purpose.

In terms of math, where I see Smith as the negative and neo as the absolute, it is impossible for him to evolve in level without the value of the one's change. His rage is exactly the "motivation" I was describing. This is precisely WHY you can't have a scene with the Architect "touching" or reviving Smith. Then Smith would not BLAME neo for his exile status, also, one could then argue that Smith also "touched" the source, and should be granted powers as Bane outside the Matrix.

He escaped deletion and came to know his new powers.  He began his quest for destruction and grew in strength as he absorbed more and more of the system.  He literally became a virus, something I can't see the Architect letting loose in his virtual harmony of mathematical destruction.

As I briefly mentioned above, the virus is technically undercontrol until it gets a hold of the Oracle. The Arc had expected to restart the Matrix with neo at the end of reloaded anyways. In which case, no more smith virus problem quickly solved. Or no more neo, return to the source? That is what Smith originally wanted. 

I can't see him (or the machines) allowing a virus to consume all of the humans and all of the exiles and grow too strong to control.  The Architect is able to calculate everything but choice and I can't see him making such a grave mistake in letting his system be victim to a virus.

There is the flaw in his calculations, once Smith has the power to remain in the Matrix after it is reset, there is no way to be sure that Smith would care to return to the source. It also would appear that sometime had passed(6 months I think) between the hallway scene at the end of film 1 & showing off his flashy copying skills in reloaded. Where I get sketchy is trying to figure out if Seraph was Supposed to be gaurding the Oracle but instead was watching Sati, & then that was also un-predicted by the Arc. You have to remember, at the point in which Neo is in the trainstation, then begins the things that the Arc has to view blindly. Neo is the first "one" to choose against the mathematical logic of the Source.

Smith, imo, was just as much of an anomaly as Neo was.  He was a result of an imbalance in the programming equation.  However, we are talking about the Matrix, a realm where anything is possible.  The Architect could have very well set Smith loose to wreak havoc in his masterpiece.  Maybe he did so with the intentions that Smith could be controlled.  I don't know if we'll ever know for sure.

I would just like to re-state that I am not saying that The Arc "created" the Smith virus, in a programer ability maker sense. What I am saying is that in making upgrades to move on with agents & letting Smith run free has an exile with the very obvious case of vengance out for neo gives him the opposite emotion has a 'motivation'. Where Neo has love for trinity & real world kinetics. IMO, there is no way that trinity can save neo without the words of the Oracle, and even with that, she almost waited too long to be able to save him. IF Smith merely evolved on his own:

A. I think Agents would have been after him or he would have had to join the Merv

B. There would have be some link to trinity the way he can feel neo in the Matrix, the way neo can feel trinity. Because otherwise you have to fall back on, he was not really destroyed in the first film... which is fine, because he wasn't and neither was Neo. Yet he does still clearly explain by what rules he is considered an exile.

But I know this.  The very moment that Smith was out of the Machine's control, he was no longer a program, he was an exile.  When Neo struck the deal, Smith was disowned completely and his deletion was approved.

THE IMPORTANT STUFF FTW.

I have but 3 points to make

1. programs living in the realworld aka machines are not of the one mind as we clearly see in the mobile ave when Neo is talking to the program who fear for sati's life because she does not have a purpose. Basically a singular conciousness cannot express conflicting emotions at the same time it is just not possible. to say they are one mind is to strip programs of their individuality which they clearly have.
2. A program is always a program, depending on which world you base your opinion on then in the real world  smith is considered an exile program yet in the matrix he is not, because he is the only entity within it apart from the one of course
3. We do not know what the oracle said to trinity, we only know what trinity has told us. you cannot control love it is impossible, we can see that trinity has felt soemthing from the begining of the first film.  IMHO if what trinity said was true then the oracle read trinity like a book and attempted to point neo in her edirection without success as we see during his first visit when neo asks the oracle who she is talknig about when she says " i can see why she likes you", neo chose ot fall inlove with trinity on his own. the oracle knew this would happen that is why she never mentioned who because neo was not ready to know. Neo was not looking for the answer to the question he was inactual fact looking for to person or should i say his other half. this is the thing the oracle mentions that neo is waiting for. there are things you can say but then there are those you cannot or you risk  altering what is to come. this is why the oracle only vaguely dishes out the details of the choices that they have already made. never giving exacts or saying it will or it wont.

1. Here is my take on this one = many situation. By no accident are the machines able to choose if they want to be apart of the Source or not. In that way, it is not a system of slavery. There are many examples that machines and programs have individual experience, but I do not see how that proves that machines who have made the choice to contribute to the system of the Source are not sharing the mind of that same source. Satis parents are an example of the machine individual experience, but at the same time, they know what they want has no place in the "entity" and then resort to the help of the Frenchman. They have to seperate from the entity in order to complete the task, and the actions take place outside of the group which I believe would make them exiles. The B166 trial gives birth to the acknowledgement of machine individuality, IMO wherever the machines became a "network" is where the "entity" itself is born. For me, neo has these powers & vision outside the matrix only because he had been to the source. Having access to the Source entity lets him see the program smith in the real as well as get elevated by the sentinel 'soul'.  I view The city of light, of shared power the visual to show this streamline of power. It is wireless Software.  The machines in this network accept its logic, power, and individually participate in its representation in some ways similiar to that of a Cristian Crusader during a holy war still being apart of the Christian communtiy motivated by faith. But I think it is unfair to compare the AI machine network to any human group because these machines all get their energy from the same source, it is something we simply can not relate. Where many machines make one babyface to have one voice. Neo is aware of this software and speaks to it directly, here the humans have what the machines did not during the meetings at the Global UN, a representative that can fully relate to the logic of both sides. He still must hardwire into the Matrix for the final fight, and my guess is anything that was left was returned to the Source.

3. So there is no proof it was what the Oracle said verbatim, but what trinity does say the Oracle "told" her at the end of the first film makes clear to the audience 2 things:

  A. He can't be dead because she is in love with him.

  B. In demonstrating that he can bend the rules of dying inside the Matrix, he is, or at least will become the one.

well put my friend but its one point i would like to make regarding your statement. in the real world smith is considered an exile as Neo was given the all clear to delete him. but in the matrix he is not for he is the only being to inhabit it. theoretically he had control over the machines due to the fact that he controled the RSI's of the blue pills. ressetting the matrix would not eradicate him because you cannot wipe the minds of those that are plugged in or they will die. the only way to eradicate him would be to destroy all those plugged in to the system. which would never of been done.

And laz my good man your statement "A. He can't be dead because she is in love with him."

is wrong as Trinity clearly says " Neo im not afraid any more, the oracle told me thhat i would fall in love and that man, the man that i fell in love with would be the one, so you can be dead" yes thats right she tells us that the neo died. and also smith tells us that he died by the hands of neo.

"B. In demonstrating that he can bend the rules of dying inside the Matrix, he is, or at least will become the one." 

He is told he has the gift required to be the one but was also told that even thoguh he had the gift he was waiting for something, this something could of been death, or trinity to confess her love to him. to be honest i dont think we will ever know for sure as they both happen in the same scene.

now you mus talso consider this, when morpheus took neo to see the oracle then the woman opens the door and directs neo inot the livingroom she says " you can wait here with the other potentials" meaning that neo was not the only one with the gift there as more than one there were many. this point could explain why smith was given his overwriting powers. because the Anomoly existed in more than one individual. you notice that smith does not use his flying ability until the end of the film. why is this, perhaps the assimilation of the other potentials gave him those powers.