This includes some stuff that should really be in the "matrix universe" section but because its tied with the game and factions i choose to discuss it here.

I got wondering the other day about how particular factions use the faction/crew system. When it comes to a faction, what is it? Well literally its a collection of crews that are idealistically matched (or so the general consensus is, although normally its just a group of people who enjoy each others company).

This brings me to how the faction is controlled in a sort of hierarchal rank system. I got thinking that a lot of people see it that the leader rules over all, but when we return to the actual matrix lore the leader of a crew generally took more notice over they're own particular crew and probably then met/spoke with other crew leaders and the leader of the faction. That said its all just speculation since we really didn't have defined "factions" within the a matrix universe.

So when we look at the factions and crews of the matrix and compare them with the films i feel somehow that we've lost the intent that a crew had. You can see in the films that zion does have a militaristic ranking system from Locke right down to mouse. Although it appears to take a back seat (that could be down to the intent of the brothers I'm assuming since everything else has some sort of premeditated reason) in that particular crews roam free and simply report to the leader for duties/updates. 

A good example of how the players that have been here and are so used to [the] "faction" rule is i recently joined a crew of completly new people some of which know each other in RL but minus me and i think the others are relatively new (some returning beta/lith players). It is in fact this crew thats caused me to rethink the normal Faction set-up. This is because when they are online they speak in crew chat initially and use Faction chat to discuss faction wide problems, goals or invitations (teaming etc). Does this not better represent the matrix universe as intended? I think the faction idea from a gaming point of view was just to abide by the normal rules of an MMO. That said its hard to justify it sometimes along with a few other changes to the universe to accompany an enjoyable MMO experience (eg EJP).

I'm not suggesting you should change but merely providing food for thought. (: It's challenged how i see factions anyway 

I had thought on this too, at first. However, the three main reasons for this not being the case, I see as being:

1. That MxO has advanced so far from the movies in terms of the ideologies, how operatives interact etc etc. Especially with the invention of the EJP, almost entirely removing the risk of fatality for any Operative jacked into the Matrix. Also, that we now have Operatives working for all three (all five) of the available organisations which we now have, leading to...

2. That because of this, of we consider how many factions there are within the Simulation, and how many crews there are within each - consider that each of them were to minimise contact - using faction chat only as a neccessery form of communication within each rather than a first line of communiction. We can now see how fragmented each of the factions, each of the organisations and, subsequently, the player base would become.

3. Every MMO's player base being attracted by one of two things. One, that it is indeed an MMO and allows for a lot of interaction with people outwith your spectrum of everyday interaction and two, the fun of the game itself - the clothes, combat, character creation and expression of individual creativity via these and more. With more interaction between faction members and consideration of factions as a whole rather than considering them as a collection of individual, independent crews furthering each of these. Faction = more interaction. Faction = more people to help you farm.

Simply put, we are here for the most part to socialise, even In Characterly - an interaction of some sort is required in order to further a goal or objective or we, nor or character would really have a reason for being within the Matrix.

To be honest, when you make an MMO, there's going to generally be a large amount of people (lol) and the 12 player limit to give the whole "crew" feeling from the movies just wasn't going to cut it. I'm sure they implemented the Faction crew so you could in essence have a "guild" without removing the whole crew concept.

Then again, if you *really* wanted to get the crew feeling, there's always the hardcore RPers that are down for that. LESIG pulled it off okay, anyways.

I think the OP has it right if what you're going for is an experience closer to what we saw in the movies, but that wouldn't really work as well in a game unless, as Ballak said, you want to go the super hardcore RP route. 

Issues with the faction control panel aside, I think the system we have allows us to tackle the faction communication/organization issue however we see fit.

The Watchmen, for example, have a pretty loose communication system.  Faction Chat is used for general communication, can be IC and OOC (with required (( and )) when there might be confusion) and Crew Chat is mostly used for training of new members to avoid cluttering the FC channel up if it's otherwise busy.  Team Chat is used when doing something with a mission team, of course, but depending on who's online or how many people the task is taking to complete we sometimes just use FC for the same purpose.

As far as the organization itself is concerned, we have a rank 1 leader (myself), a second in command, and then all other captains are below that but for all intents and purposes equal while keeping in mind the strengths and weaknesses of individual captains.  It's not a strict military system by any means, but we do definitely have a command structure.

I suppose this is how it works:

Crewmate<First Mate<Captain (varying authority depending on rank)<Faction Leader<Liason (no longer exists)<Organization Controller/Leader

That's how it's supposed to work, anyway. As for crew chat vs faction chat, I think crew chat is used less often because factions are smaller these days with the smaller population, and at any given moment there aren't a whole lot of people in the crew online. The crew chat would make more sense in a bigger faction.

I think from the original post you didnt quite get what i ment.. I wasnt saying that faction wasnt in the film so shoudlnt be in game or shouldnt ever have been. I mean the way in which we use it having based upon something we dont know alot about (considering the movies didnt have factions although you could say in the movie situation the faction would have been zion as a whole)

What i ment by it was, The way we use the system could be more to the films. We seam to have lost that feel because we're so used to the norm (:

Also occured to me another reason why its not normally used as such with what monk said... THe factions normally have one or two characters per crew and crew chat isnt used because..there no one to talk to. :s lol

mmm.. near as i can tell everyone got what you meant, that in the movies there were no factions...

however....

in the movies, there were no Machine or Merovingian Operatives, and the Cypherites and EPN didnt exist.

In the movies, there was no Truce. all movement and communication in the Matrix was furtive and secretive. Notice in the first film how, when that first wave of sentinels comes by and they all get quiet, Morpheus slips on the hat of a submariner. Like submarines, hovercrafts had to try and keep distant from each other, and constantly hide from sentinels.

In the movies, everyone had virtually the same goal- free bluepills and survive. There wouldn't be much politics surrounding what Zion should or shouldn't be doing, or anything else for that matter.

What I'm saying is that the build of the game is centered on the truce, and the invention of the EJP. It was no longer neccessary for crews to flit around and be secretive, tight knit groups. Furthermore, the end of the war brought a whole ralm of new politics into the story. What organization to support, how to support them, whether to moderate or extreme. Thus, the Idea of Factions, groups of crew who agreed politically ( Faction is very much a political term in my interpretation) became a useful tool for Operatives.

Now that the Truce is over, the idea of going back to a more Crew oreinted IC interaction has its appeal, I have to admit that. However, as most have noted, the Faction system is built into the game. With a small population, talking in crew would be very limited, as you note. And again, politically, we are maybe even more fractured than before, with every person having some cool idea of what they believe and want to express. So I really don't see Factions dissapearing.

If this game were realistic, Zion and Merv Operatives would have to carry ammunition (anyone else remember how the manual claims that we don't carry ammunition because the Truce allowed Hovercrafts to Operate shallower, so your Operator can load bullets into your gun?? I still get a laugh out of that). If this game were realistic, the Merv's would have had lvl100 agents popping up all along, the way Zion does now. if this game were realistic, we could have hovercraft battles in the real where people actually died and had to create new toons. Or sentinels could arrive and attack Zion and Merv hovercraft at any time, forcing you to jack out and leave the game.

I guess I'm saying that there are a LOT of things that could have made this game more like 'the movies' or more 'realistic', but it wouldn't have made for a very fair and balanced game. I like your idea from an IC perspective, but in terms of gameplay, im not sure its really practical or desireable.

Clearly not  I referred to the lack of factions in the films as a reason for why the faction system is well an unknown topic. Because it wasn't in use we don't really have any guides as to how it should work. Which is a good thing too, i was simply saying that the system that most use is not just the only way (: 

Danger_Frog1471 wrote:

Clearly not  I referred to the lack of factions in the films as a reason for why the faction system is well an unknown topic. Because it wasn't in use we don't really have any guides as to how it should work. Which is a good thing too, i was simply saying that the system that most use is not just the only way (: 

K, my mistake. it seemed like you were saying that since there weren't Factions in the movie, we shouldn't HAVE them.

and I think mine and everyone elses point is that this is comparing apples and oranges. We aren't playing the movies. The game doesn't work like a movie, and it probably wouldn't make a good GAME if it WAS like the movies. I don't think we can use the movies as a guide to how EVERYTHING in the games mechanics works.

We could argue that we shouldn't have a hacker tree, because there was nothing like this in the movies. And since we don't have any guides, we don't know how they should work. Personally, I don't think that there should have been Hax in the game, its basically spell-casting from a medieval MMO, and thats why its here, cuz someone in development thgt the game had to have a spell-casting equivalent. But I'm not gonna try and stop my team or crew from using em to be IC, because we would just get OWNED.

I think this is why I always try to seperate my sense of game-play, from my sense of RP. If I am Rping, I might act out having to function in a Crew based way, or wear clothes that fit my image, but have s****y buffs. But for actual gameplay mechanics, I don't see the point of trying to do things differently, just to be authentic to the movies.

And if anything, game-mechanically, I've always thgt there ought to be some kind of Organization communication channel. I've been in many situations where I have to work with more than 6 people from other Crews/Factions, and need to communicate in something other than Area chat. But, course, most people are using vents anyway so... yeah, need to get on that really.

If you REALLY wanted to try and emulate a game feel, I would try getting all the cell phone numbers of your crewmates, and calling them evrytime you wanted to talk to them when they weren't nearby. Now THAT would give ya the Movie feel.