Let's talk spy......

The Leo · 11/22/2007 08:12:41

This is old topic and I still think spy sin't completely balanced (staggering throw anyone) but I have no more hopes for this "fix" .

**Darkhorse**

The Leo wrote:

This is old topic and I still think spy sin't completely balanced (staggering throw anyone) but I have no more hopes for this "fix" so lock please.
Thanks in avance.

yea we can't complain anymore we know it's one of the best classes, just load hacker

**Sneaker**

yea we can't complain anymore we know it's one of the best classes, just load hacker
Right, and get pwned by everything else.

In every "King of the Hill" tournament I've been to, guess who went the longest rounds multiple times? MKT's. Then, someone would specialize their build entirely to combat an MKT, only to get defeated the very next round by someone else.

That's the problem.

**Zerotolerance**

Sneaker wrote:

yea we can't complain anymore we know it's one of the best classes, just load hacker
Right, and get pwned by everything else.
In every "King of the Hill" tournament I've been to, guess who went the longest rounds multiple times? MKT's. Then, someone would specialize their build entirely to combat an MKT, only to get defeated the very next round by someone else.
That's the problem.

Your statements there are godly, dude.

It sums up the issue we're having. With a higher population and therefore a more diverse group of people you'd find it much easier to pick your targets instead of trying to snipe one MKT with another two in Sneak. :D

The Leo

Well now since the last update the time duration for which it takes a spy to execute an ability in IL has decreased, and there is still staggering throw which is high lvl ability which I compare to wrist throw with such a high IS cost and average dmg. I'd like to have an ability with 190 melee dps with 3 second timer to use too so it does 900 dmg outside IL. It would be nice also to decrease the time to use LC2 to 5 seconds and increase it's dps to 100 and maybe a similar one ability to the gun tree so all trees get a fair ZOMG ability. Also since I notice hackers missing a lot that accuracy nerf should be removed having in mind spies throw knifes left and right with one miss out of 15.

**Sphairo**

Spies aren't that difficult to beat now. Granted, they do need to *fit* in some thrown defense passives but if you slap a load of 240 thrown resist or 140 ish with calm mind, calm body, and STAY on them, they aren't a huggge problem. Carry biotics with you, too.. they will save you alot. ;)

**Mave**

The Leo wrote:

Well now since the last update the time duration for which it takes a spy to execute an ability in IL has decreased, and there is still staggering throw which is high lvl ability which I compare to wrist throw with such a high IS cost and average dmg. I'd like to have an ability with 190 melee dps with 3 second timer to use too so it does 900 dmg outside IL. It would be nice also to decrease the time to use LC2 to 5 seconds and increase it's dps to 100 and maybe a similar one ability to the gun tree so all trees get a fair ZOMG ability. Also since I notice hackers missing a lot that accuracy nerf should be removed having in mind spies throw knifes left and right with one miss out of 15.

Fine, I'd like to be able to punt without having to break your shield.

MAs get the awesome skill of being able to use TWO powerful moves back to back. When those two hit, you're pretty much dead or 1-2 hits away from dying.

MAs are a powerful IL tree, but if you're getting kited around by spies, learn ways around it. You DON'T need OoI moves. Don't like being restricted to IL, run a stat hack for a tree that does In IL and OoI damage or deal with it.

**GoDGiVeR** · 11/29/2007 14:22:18

Mave wrote:

MAs get the awesome skill of being able to use TWO powerful moves back to back.

Speciality:

- MA: Two special moves combo
- Guns: Sniper + OoIL Special Moves, sneaky
- Spy: Serious Movement Debuffs, high damage OoIL and into IL moves, very sneaky
- Hacks: Heals, All-kinds Debuffs, AOE attacks
- Coder: Coding / Compile, Proxy

Ah well but let's talk about spies, will we?
(What follows next is my interpretation, mind you.)

Definition:
Spies are a scout / support class, with quick and enemy delaying moves. Also support movesfor IL and OoIL for teammates on individual targets (nobody uses them though, because many of them are sneak knive attacks and we all know, spies mainly use Staggering Throw for the quite high amount of damage. Nobody uses e.g. the Shadow sneak knive moves for support). Ability to deal large damage in short time, while not being able to hold in to much damage (like every scout or assassin class should be, but we don't have individual HP, IS, resistance etc. starts and limits for tree branches).

Well, most of the definition holds true, however, the effort in which it can walk inside the definition is too low.

1 vs 1: I don't see too much wrong there (except still for some balancing issues, but every tree has those).

Many vs Many: The spies true strength, for their strength grows more than just linear in multiple foe combat alongside fellow spies. This is where I see the main problem. Fighting a group of spies is the most difficult situation (IMO) one encounters in PvP, for they can cover their weaknesses excellently and support each other flawlessly. With the lack of throw def boni I fear, this won't change much.

Granted, it's possible to take down a group of spies, but I'd rather be outnumbered and take down a group of MAs, Guns or Hacks (independently from my LO), because that's easier to deal with in any case.

**Ntrails** · 11/30/2007 08:39:43

pointless post. ignore it.

Why rant? why care?>

The Leo

I really don't think a difference in 1 dps in ability from the spy tree should have nearly 100 dmg difference, especially when my thrown resistance was 10 pts more than melee. In these pics I had 187 melee resistannce and 195 thrown. In the melee one I asked ratbert to use prowess to get most damage out. The leg sweep one I am not even sure if the guy used the dmg buff or not.

**GoDGiVeR**

You forget that it's measured in D.P.S. . Though every animation should be 4 seconds long, the animation time is NOT the D.P.S. measured time. Even though leg sweep is considerably shorter in animation time than iron guard, it clearly seems that the D.P.S. time from leg sweep is longer than that of the iron guard.

Weird timing, anyone?