Neo

**zeroone506**

I asked this question exactly for this reason, to get more insight into this topic.

However, this answer doesn't prove your point at all.
"There are evidently a few things established in the movies that they'd rather we didn't mess with too much".

That could very well mean that they had certain answers in mind, and didn't want anyone to mess with these areas and probably giving "wrong" answers. They also rejected a few of Rarebit's ideas, for this reason I suppose.
"Established" can mean "ascertained", but also "introduced".

It's obvious that they did leave Chadwick and the rest lots of freedom to do stuff with their characters and universe, but apparently not full freedom.

Also, Rarebit doesn't talk to the Wachowskis all day. A few months ago, he didn't even know that they had anything to do with the game at all. He said he met Chadwick just a few times and wasn't asking him questions about the brothers - so this statement merely states that they haven't given him instructions to answer stuff.

However, another interpretation is that they really left out blanks to be filled by others. In this case, I'll of course loose my "admiration" of the movies' storyline and the Matrix at all.
Already way back in the day, my Dad was wondering if they "weren't just messing with us" with all this confusing talk and mysteries. I didn't really know, but I was assuming that they certainly had something in mind. If this turns out not to be the case, I'll of course change my opinion.

Paperghost · 04/07/2007 05:27:53

zeroone506 wrote:

I asked this question exactly for this reason, to get more insight into this topic.

However, this answer doesn't prove your point at all.
"There are evidently a few things established in the movies that they'd rather we didn't mess with too much".

That could very well mean that they had certain answers in mind, and didn't want anyone to mess with these areas and probably giving "wrong" answers. They also rejected a few of Rarebit's ideas, for this reason I suppose.
"Established" can mean "ascertained", but also "introduced".

It's obvious that they did leave Chadwick and the rest lots of freedom to do stuff with their characters and universe, but apparently not full freedom.

Also, Rarebit doesn't talk to the Wachowskis all day. A few months ago, he didn't even know that they had anything to do with the game at all. He said he met Chadwick just a few times and wasn't asking him questions about the brothers - so this statement merely states that they haven't given him instructions to answer stuff.

yeah, but come on - you're really reaching with regards ways to explain away these issues with the final film at this point. how far do we want to go in wondering if the w bros actually came up with stuff to fill these blanks? can you work them out from the film? well, no. okay then, we'll wonder if they made the final film in that way because they expressly intended to resolve those issues in some piece of secondary media after the event, like a seraph game...no wait, they won't do that now....okay then, we'll pump for matrix online. that seems reasonable. oh wait, the guy responsible for driving the story along in conjunction with some other guy isn't even aware of any of that stuff being addressed in the future. okay then, we'll imagine that maybe the w bros did write all these things down but they're sitting in a vault in wackowski towers somewhere, come to save us all in a matrix fans darkest hour.

if they "haven't given him instructions to answer stuff", don't you think that they would have actually done so by now considering these are pretty big "reveals" with regards to the numerous holes and issues already raised?

either the w bros physically wrote this stuff down and handed it to the matrix online dev team and said, "THIS is how its gonna go down in the first year with regards the big questions regarding neo and all the other stuff Paperghost and other random people are going to complain about furiously for years to come on forums the world over" - but they keep forgetting to actually phone up the guy driving the plot of the game and tell him he might want to make space for these big reveals

OR

.....they didn't, and left the development / resolving of those issues for people other than themselves, a group of game developers and a comicbook writer (who as far as I am aware, had no involvement in any of the films whatsoever) to fill in all of the blanks from their third and final movie in the matrix trilogy - which would be a weird thing to do in terms of making a specific set of allusions to things specific to their own inner creative vision then giving it to a total stranger to "fix".

OR

(worst case scenario), they never even intended for any of that stuff to be "resolved" because they thought the film stood on its own two feet "as is".

does it seem realistic that they would do A, or B, or C?

However, another interpretation is that they really left out blanks to be filled by others. In this case, I'll of course loose my "admiration" of the movies' storyline and the Matrix at all.
Already way back in the day, my Dad was wondering if they "weren't just messing with us" with all this confusing talk and mysteries. I didn't really know, but I was assuming that they certainly had something in mind. If this turns out not to be the case, I'll of course change my opinion.

well, let me ask you - debating aside, which do you personally see as being more likely and credible given the above? that somewhere, somehow, the w bros do indeed have this stuff written down and sometime in the near future will remember to phone up rarebit and fill him in? or that they just made the film and thought, "okay, job done, this all makes perfect sense, cya" and never had any intention of fleshing out these problems and issues with the film, even if only because their internal creative process went horribly wrong somehow and they didn't actually ever see any problems with Revolutions when making it?

**zeroone506** · 04/07/2007 14:41:37

yeah, but come on - you're really reaching with regards ways to explain away these issues with the final film at this point. how far do we want to go in wondering if the w bros actually came up with stuff to fill these blanks?

No, I'm not. I'm just staying reasonable and don't make one-sided conclusions. Wait, have I said "no, this means they have in a vault"? No.

Before Rarebit suggested some kind of idea and got an email from the Wachowskis, some asked him and he said "I haven't heard anything about them". By your logic, I'd have to conclude that "okay, they've forsaken us". But not quite, apparently, as it turned out later.

We know that the communication between Rarebit and Chadwick isn't very frequent, let alone the Ws. At least before Rarebit gained more control, he also just new the outline for the "first six chapters".
So, is it really that far-fetched not to interpret Rarebit's "I haven't heard about it" as "it doesn't exist"? No, it isn't.

oh wait, the guy responsible for driving the story along in conjunction with some other guy isn't even aware of any of that stuff being addressed in the future. okay then, we'll imagine that maybe the w bros did write all these things down but they're sitting in a vault in wackowski towers somewhere, come to save us all in a matrix fans darkest hour.

I don't think it's so implausible that they wouldn't give all intended plot evolvements right away, even to Chadwick. That would be obvious if they had stopped influencing the game, but they still do, apparently.
And he gave Rarebit and co. only the first 6-7 chapters at the beginning.

So we don't have a triumvirate of equal storytellers, but rather something like a chain where one gives the other one ideas and outlines to work out.

if they "haven't given him instructions to answer stuff", don't you think that they would have actually done so by now considering these are pretty big "reveals" with regards to the numerous holes and issues already raised?

The storyline so far has not revolved around those issues, and has been doing pretty well without them. It might even take a year or more until we find out about Neo's status, or other important questions.
So why do you think is it impossible that that Wachowskis haven't yet revealed this? Just asking.

But all in all, I do see the lack of communication a big problem in MxO in any case. That was problematic with the LET, and is still problematic in this case.

well, let me ask you - debating aside, which do you personally see as being more likely and credible given the above? that somewhere, somehow, the w bros do indeed have this stuff written down and sometime in the near future will remember to phone up rarebit and fill him in? or that they just made the film and thought, "okay, job done, this all makes perfect sense, cya" and never had any intention of fleshing out these problems and issues with the film, even if only because their internal creative process went horribly wrong somehow and they didn't actually ever see any problems with Revolutions when making it?

Wishful thinking. I was already believing the same before MxO launched and people were bitching about the sequels - they said it was BS, I thought there was a meaning, but there wasn't much to prove either my or their point of view.

The reason why I still proceed from "A" or the like, is wishful thinking plus lack of information, and the existance of reasonable arguments to consider "A" possible with the current information.

Apart from that, it is a bit difficult for me to accept that such incredibly glaring questions without any explanation whatsoever were implemented without any thought. If there's an evidence that it's the case, I'll accept it.

EDIT: Oops, I managed to misread the point of this paragraph as "let me ask you, why are you so sure it's this way?" Stupid idiot. But I'm gonna let this stand now.

Actually, if I throw away all the "convictions" I've been having about the Matrix franchise for years, I sure don't know what's more plausible.
What speaks against the second one is that the questions in the movies were all too glaring to be overlooked like this. On the other side, if they didn't take it so seriously with the storyline and rather wanted to confuse the audience with symbolism and question marks, it'd make sense.
What speaks for the first one is that it's entirely possible that they haven't revealed everything to their "sub-writers", since they're apparently still involved. Actually, some interview with Chadwick made this impression on me.

Other than that, look above. At the end of the day, I simply have no idea. But the Mexican standoff in Hel Club still makes sense.

**zeroone506** · 04/07/2007 14:29:20

FYI, the reason I asked this question was because after writing another post in this thread, I started wondering: "Hold on dude, how do you know?"
So I start doubting and come up with this in "ask a dev".

If he had replied with "No, they encouraged us to invent our own answers and interpretations", I'd have come here and said: "I was wrong and deeply apologize for my misguided arguments, I hope you understand this".

If he had replied with "Yea, they gave us developments and answers to write into the game, but I won't tell you =p", I'd have come here and said: "Lol pwnt n00b I was r1ght 4ll the t1m3!11!".

But that answer leaves me pretty much in the dark about the Wachowski's intentions or the movies, apart from maybe lowering my conviction and boosting your "sceptism".
If it does anything, then reminding me to *CENSORED* stop taking my assumptions for granted facts SMILEY

All my points about the Ws intending to answer the questions in MxO, although not being unlogical, lacked any serious substance and were assumptions / wishful thinking.
I should have realized it and made it clear.

However, my opinion waits for something more substantial to change it.

PS: Oh, I forgot.
"but they keep forgetting to actually phone up the guy driving the plot of the game and tell him he might want to make space for these big reveals"

There are evidently a few things established in the movies that they'd rather we didn't mess with too much.

You know how this sounds to me? Like they wanted to make "space" for the reveals.

**MxOElliMann**

ZOMG! TEH DRAMA!

**zeroone506**

Joakim wrote:

ZOMG! TEH DRAMA!

... is long over.

A bit sad, but this is one of those debates I've learned something from, and changed my opinion - so it's good thing I guess.