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Serious concerns for the story.
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Systemic Anomaly

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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The have been some significant story changes of late, but the more I analyse them the more concerned I am as to the impact and lack of way to recover any valid rp stance for anyone....
  • The end of the trilogy makes sense if and only if the Machines wanted a truce or else had to follow one.... the connection with the Cypherites and more recent acts is a violent contradiction
  • The ability and willingness of the machines to overwrite a human that has rejected the simulation defeats all the logic behind the existence of Zion.
  • Aside from Wannabe agents the radical redrawing of the mechs betrays every decent and considered Mech operative rp....  a valid mech organisation is pivotal to taking Mxo forward.
  • Mech compliance in the presence of a truce is the only credible support we have for the 'incredibly' convenient EJP....its gone!
  • 'No such procedure' and the historical knowledge of the trilogy offers Cypherites nothing but futility.... the organisation no longer has any scope to exist aside from 'its the angry org'
  • Organisational identity - the most well defined and persuasive org was the Mechs, as of now at the very best they are indistinguishable in operation from epn or cyphs leaving only two orgs with any vague distinction.
  • The breakdown of the truce.....this only results in more events and activities being completely inaccessible to us.... good story maybe but the longer it goes on the more uunrewarding life as a redpill becomes.
  • Batteries..... we are revisiting a cornerstone of the franchise and a building block for the entire concept, turning on such foundations works to undermines the entire fabric of the matrix! We need a consistent and recognisable base or else this isn't the Matrix..
currently I seem to conclude, nothing matters, nothing has any impact, nothing changes and we can do nothing about it......I don't want to feel that way when i play a game, read a book or watch a movie SMILEY



Systemic Anomaly

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I agree 100%! Apart from the last point, which still has the possibility of being resolved in a sensible manner that doesn't detract from the premise of the movies too much.



Systemic Anomaly

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I wouldn't be all that concernd. Everything was okayed by the Wachowski's before it went live so while the ideas arn't their's they had to at least go through them at some point.



Jacked Out

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I agree with Gami, and although I see what you're saying on the majority of the points, I think complaining about who created EJP is...well... kinda silly. I don't think it takes away from anything that the machines didn't create it. To me, that's one of the things that comes with the story taking the shape of an MMO. I think the majority of the player base either doesn't care or isn't concerned.

Also, the view of organizational identity is a matter of opinion. I agree that the machine org was probably the most defined and persuasive org, but we're not here for there to be the mechs and everyone else. I think it's a good thing that each org go through times of crisis and times of triumph. All the orgs have flaws and strong points, and to constantly make one org dominant defeats the point and hurts the experience for those not in that org.

The existence of the Cypherites was designed to be a "necessary evil", but one with a strong purpose that shows an undeniable truth. Not everybody that is out wants to be after they see the real world. Also, just as it was when we all thought reinsertion was possible, the Cypherites are made up primarily of traitors and spies of Zion. They are in a position to do things that machinists aren't, and that's been shown even in recent events. It shows that the machines will still do what's necessary to keep control.

The breakdown of the truce was coming ever since the Oracle and The Architect talked about it. Personally, I think this tension is needed, and we need to be under this situation to be able to see our characters outside of the box the truce kept us in since this game started. I agree that keeping it going indefinitely may hurt things at some point, but as long as it's taken care of within a reasonable amount of time, it can still be believable and good for progression of the story.


Jacked Out

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GamiSB wrote:
I wouldn't be all that concernd. Everything was okayed by the Wachowski's before it went live so while the ideas arn't their's they had to at least go through them at some point.

 

I've always had my doubts about how much of the minutia of MxO the brothers actually approved at the onset, but if there's still anyone left who really believes Andy and Larry/Lana/Linda/whoever-he-is-now have been keeping a watchful, approving eye over this increasingly absurd storyline all this time, they need a bigger wake up call then any red pill can provide.

In any case, despite the fact that MxO's storyline jumped the shark long ago and is for all intents and purposes FUBAR, rest assured that some comparably inane upcoming cinematic plot twist will return the current data clusterflock to the status quo faster than you can say whiskey tango foxtrot.

 

Pyraci wrote:

To me, that's one of the things that comes with the story taking the shape of an MMO.  I think the majority of the player base either doesn't care or isn't concerned.

It is one of my greatest concerns that the premise of the Matrix Online was forsaken in the name of game content;  it is the primary reason the story's credibility has suffered.  Somewhere just below that concern is the fact that people aren't concerned.

Jax


Jacked Out

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You should just rename this to "Why I hate the Cypherites..." I think it would be more suiting. Come on people no Cyph love? Where would you be with out us? You would be sick with boredom.  Love us or hate us we are good for the story. Chicka chicka yaaaa(Ya superbad). I mean look at recursion the Cyph are almost dead there. Who do you argue against? Other zions and mechs? Gets a little boring after awhile I would think SMILEY. Well that just my opinion. Syntax were going strong. We multiply like rabbitsSMILEY. Im just saying if your mech try being a Cyph your guna have a good time.

Jax


Transcendent

Joined: Mar 9, 2007
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stewartdaniels1986 wrote:
I've always had my doubts about how much of the minutia of MxO the brothers actually approved at the onset, but if there's still anyone left who really believes Andy and Larry/Lana/Linda/whoever-he-is-now have been keeping a watchful, approving eye over this increasingly absurd storyline all this time, they need a bigger wake up call then any red pill can provide.
Unfortunately a lot of people, obviously including you (not trying to make this sound harsh, but hopefully it's still a nice poke in the arse SMILEY ) don't read almost any of the questions in the Ask the Dev thread. Rarebit has talked numerous times about how the recent change in the storyline was a collaboration between him and Paul. However, he states that some of his own more extreme ideas were turned down by the Wachowskis. Paul showed him part of an e-mail from them detailing about why that part could not be added to the story. Now, unless Paul lied, the Wachowskis still at least approve of what is happening in the storyline.

Jax wrote:
You should just rename this to "Why I hate the Cypherites..." I think it would be more suiting. Come on people no Cyph love? Where would you be with out us? You would be sick with boredom.  Love us or hate us we are good for the story. Chicka chicka yaaaa(Ya superbad). I mean look at recursion the Cyph are almost dead there. Who do you argue against? Other zions and mechs? Gets a little boring after awhile I would think SMILEY. Well that just my opinion. Syntax were going strong. We multiply like rabbitsSMILEY. Im just saying if your mech try being a Cyph your guna have a good time.
((I love ya Jax, but there really wasn't any purpose for you to post all that in here. The negativity on Cypherites was only one of 8 or so points, and you did nothing to give reasons that refuted her claim, only going off on a recruiting trip. Personally, I think Cyphs are here to make players stay aware of the fact that 99% accept the program in some way, and it adds in an element from the first movie with Cypher.))

Jax


Jacked Out

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MotorZ wrote:

Jax wrote:
You should just rename this to "Why I hate the Cypherites..." I think it would be more suiting. Come on people no Cyph love? Where would you be with out us? You would be sick with boredom.  Love us or hate us we are good for the story. Chicka chicka yaaaa(Ya superbad). I mean look at recursion the Cyph are almost dead there. Who do you argue against? Other zions and mechs? Gets a little boring after awhile I would think SMILEY. Well that just my opinion. Syntax were going strong. We multiply like rabbitsSMILEY. Im just saying if your mech try being a Cyph your guna have a good time.
((I love ya Jax, but there really wasn't any purpose for you to post all that in here. The negativity on Cypherites was only one of 8 or so points, and you did nothing to give reasons that refuted her claim, only going off on a recruiting trip. Personally, I think Cyphs are here to make players stay aware of the fact that 99% accept the program in some way, and it adds in an element from the first movie with Cypher.))
Psh you know I dont read posts. I see only what I want to see SMILEY. And all I see is more Cyph bashing. Uhhh....Ya


Development

Joined: Dec 2, 2005
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This is a potentially interesting topic, but I'd like to point out as a matter of perspective that relatively little in the way of permanent change to the known world of the Matrix occurred in our game until quite recently. In very broad terms you could generalize it more or less like so:

Everything before chapter 7ish:
- Operatives gain emergency jack-out technology
- Cypherites appear, hampering extractions
- EPN appears, hampering Cypherites

Starting in chapter 7ish:
- Zion builds a new city (vague hints begin to appear)
- Machines revealed as hands behind the Cypherites
- Machines debunk "reinsertion"
- Merovingian gains control of Sentinels
- Cypherites discover Zion's new city
- Machines declare an end to the Truce

In a sense I think the complaints in this thread are a natural result of our recent attempts to have a story that does something to the Matrix "universe" as we know it. So, just to warn you:

- Changes to the Matrix universe will continue
- You'll have to pay close attention to multiple sources to have a chance of really understanding what's going on

The alternative is to have a "story" that treads water by bringing through a parade of temporary foes who don't actually deepen our understanding of the Matrix. I'm a little tired of that, so we're trying this approach instead.



Jacked Out

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Rarebit wrote:
The alternative is to have a "story" that treads water by bringing through a parade of temporary foes who don't actually deepen our understanding of the Matrix. I'm a little tired of that, so we're trying this approach instead.

The approach is sparking a lot more interest in the storyline, it seems.

and The Matrix Online having an impact on the "Matrix Universe" is a great thing, that was its original purpose, right?

Message edited by HostileIntention on 08/10/2007 21:46:55.


Vindicator

Joined: Aug 16, 2005
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Rarebit wrote:
This is a potentially interesting topic, but I'd like to point out as a matter of perspective that relatively little in the way of permanent change to the known world of the Matrix occurred in our game until quite recently. In very broad terms you could generalize it more or less like so:

Everything before chapter 7ish:
- Operatives gain emergency jack-out technology
- Cypherites appear, hampering extractions
- EPN appears, hampering Cypherites

Starting in chapter 7ish:
- Zion builds a new city (vague hints begin to appear)
- Machines revealed as hands behind the Cypherites
- Machines debunk "reinsertion"
- Merovingian gains control of Sentinels
- Cypherites discover Zion's new city
- Machines declare an end to the Truce

In a sense I think the complaints in this thread are a natural result of our recent attempts to have a story that does something to the Matrix "universe" as we know it. So, just to warn you:

- Changes to the Matrix universe will continue
- You'll have to pay close attention to multiple sources to have a chance of really understanding what's going on

The alternative is to have a "story" that treads water by bringing through a parade of temporary foes who don't actually deepen our understanding of the Matrix. I'm a little tired of that, so we're trying this approach instead.


Thank you!

Really, aside form the things mentioned, the only other major shaping thing that happened prior to Chapter 7 was that Morpheus died, I guess, and the way the story's direction is changing is much, much more fun and true to the "Matrix-feel".




Systemic Anomaly

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Well, alot of people used to think the purpose was so that we could have an impact in the Matrix Universe. Now that its obvious that we cant, this is the next best thing I suppose.

Though if things continue on the path they are, I'm going to have to spend ages learning new names and faces, I've been a mech for two years straight, and while I still enjoy the game, my character has gotten some serious issues with the direction everything has been headed.

/shrug



Systemic Anomaly

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HostileIntention wrote:
Rarebit wrote:
The alternative is to have a "story" that treads water by bringing through a parade of temporary foes who don't actually deepen our understanding of the Matrix. I'm a little tired of that, so we're trying this approach instead.

The approach is sparking a lot more interest in the storyline, it seems.

and The Matrix Online having an impact on the "Matrix Universe" is a great thing, that was its original purpose, right?

Right because it is now actully doing something with the story and not just being some add on side story. It furthers what we thought we already knew and as long as it's nothing re-taw-ded like clowns are actully powering the Matrix or it all ends up as being a dream then I have no problems haveing everything do a 180 and welcome anything that Paul or Rarebit throw at us.

Message edited by GamiSB on 08/10/2007 21:53:28.



Development

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Neoteny wrote:

Thank you!

Really, aside form the things mentioned, the only other major shaping thing that happened prior to Chapter 7 was that Morpheus died, I guess, and the way the story's direction is changing is much, much more fun and true to the "Matrix-feel".

I had Morpheus in there as a fourth pre-chap7 bullet point, but I took it out, because really, his death, while an alarming personal shock, did not permanently change the status quo.



Systemic Anomaly

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GamiSB wrote:
I have no problems haveing everything do a 180 and welcome anything that Paul or Rarebit throw at us.
I do, because it turns everything I've built up as an IC persona for the last oh...two years right on its nose.

Now none of that matters, and it doesn't appear it will matter.

See where I might not like that? SMILEY

 
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