Sneaking - a few thoughts and suggestions

**Tytanya_MxO**

I thought it would be useful to describe some of the scenarios in which sneak is usually applied in relation to the new sneak system and ask for some feedback on a few suggestions which imo would greatly increase the ability of the player to use strategy and be a real 'sneak'.

When do players need sneak most?

When they face a larger force and have to pick off individuals.
To spy on meetings and events
To get into attack position usually by negotiating a path through a visible region
To get to a position where they can trigger certain key attacks/abilities

To be useful Sneak needs to allow you to stay in position for long periods of time without detection and to be able to move within reason through a crowd to get to a particular target.

My understanding is that the new sneak system once another player/npc turns in your direction there is an increasing likelyhood of being detected with time (atm way too easily). The ability to wait and plan has gone, the ability to spy has gone. Time should not be a factor in staying sneaked if all other variables remain the same.

The sneak system I think should reward and encourage sneaky play, when you are stationary you should get a significant sneak bonus, when you move sneak should take a penalty (ideally with move speed a factor though I realise that is probably asking too much). We need to factility to be able to wait our chance, to remain cloaked until the strike is possible or until a viable path is able to be negotiated.

Detection in sneak should not break you from sneak mode, a player observing a sneaked character may indeed have a reason to allow them to go about their business, may be luring them into a trap etc strategy can be used...sneak should only break when an attack is made on that character (whether it hits or not it hits it should still break sneak).

Certain attacks should leave the player in sneak for a follow up....perhaps for a period of time during the attack and just after the ability of the sneaked charater to be detected should be increased, this promotes cleaver positioning and again rewards player strategy.

In a similar manner lets reward and encourage clever detection techiniques, a players ability to detect a stealthed chracter should depend on how they are behaving when running or in combat the ability to detect should be penalised, standing it should be average and walking (ie a style of searching) should get a detection bonus......again give the player an ability to be involved in making the difference.

In summary rather that have time a factor in detecting a sneaked character, vary the 'ability to stay sneaked' based on the action being taken, vary the ability to detect in a simialr manner - give the players the ability to make the distinction and to use skill and guile take the rewards or else suffer the consequeces....this is after all what spying is all about SMILEY

**Skull101**

Well yeah I agree with you there. The new spy tree isn't as great as it is on the live servers, I mean you can't even sneak behind a npc without it seeing you. Plus spys should do way more damge then on the QA. Assassins are supposed to be able to take someone down in a few hits but on the test server your lucky to hit your mark and do alot of damge. Being someone who uses the current spy tree alot. I find that the new one is cooler if they would just fix all the problems with it. Somethings they should improve the new system with before it goes live: More damge, The ability to sneak better around everyone, npc and player alike. Also I think the devs are trying to make the game team friendly making most things only able to help out other players. But if your fighting alot of people by yourself this new system is going to have alot of problems.

Fade2blacK

As always, perfect points. I would add something like in the new evade system:

1) You can't change stances while sneaking, your sneak breaks if you try to change your stance.
2) The other damage modifier for stances would still apply.
3) Speed makes you walk faster. Drawback is that it lowers your sneaking (let's say... of a 20%) since you are not paying much attention in moving silently.
4) Power gives you an higher chance to be sneaky. Drawback is that you are moving a bit more slowly than normal because you are careful.
5) Grab gives you a very high chance to be sneaky.Drawback is that you are very slow and do less damage with knives, but you are going to do quite better with assassin moves.
6) Block gives you a tremendusly high change to pass completely unseen. You move VEEERY slowly and you can't attack, but staying in front of or behind your enemy doens't really make any difference at all.

Kidthatbelieves69

I agree with Tytanya (as always SMILEY

) Sneak is a huge aspect of pvp, especially for vector, and ESPECIALLY for Exiles. We can't fight the zerg, but hell, we should be able to stick a knife in their face or give'em a nice kick in the nuts every once in a while!

Styan

/agree!

All very good points...

**ZaneZavin**

The problem with Sneak on Test server is lack of Stealth. Those nice passives seem to have vanished.

**EndlessVoid**

This is an excellent thread.
I agree wholeheartedly that sneak is one of the most important abilities in the game, not only for combat, but for interaction as a whole.

- Void

RockyB

/agree

(and yes, I know that's seen as spam)

**davec4s**

bump ... fade2black... right on.... stance change (especially within spy tree) and buff change should not break sneak. sneak should be independent of attack type. its bad enough the attack specials are linked to them at all that sneak is .... is just pain wrong.

Fade2blacK

davec4s wrote:
bump ... fade2black... right on.... stance change (especially within spy tree) and buff change should not break sneak. sneak should be independent of attack type. its bad enough the attack specials are linked to them at all that sneak is .... is just pain wrong.

My idea about sneaking and stances was about making them a way to choose your snaking style.
speed:easily detectable, fast movemente speed, no speed related damage penality to knife attacks.
power: harder to detect, slow movement speed.
grab: very hard to detect, very slow movement speed, bonus damage to spy melee special attacks (you know...wrestling moves).
block:almost impossible to detect, incredibly slow movement, you can't attack.

If stances will ever give sneaking modifiers, then it would be better if we can't change stances while we are sneaking, to prevent people from going around at high speed, and then switching to a harder to spot stance, when they find enemies, that would be too easy.
But if stances will continue as they are now, that is to say not giving you modifiers to sneak, then there is no point in making stance changes to break your sneak state.

**Ntrails**

Did the new patch make sneak more usable?

Fade2blacK

Ntrails wrote:
Did the new patch make sneak more usable?

didn't have time to try...