ShiXinFeng wrote:

That doesn't have the slightest thing to do with my calling him a hypocrit, and you know it.

Let me spell it all out, since it seems that, in this case, the irony of his hypocrisy was lost on you.

• One guy jokes that the first vet award will be some specific item that had to be earned through a specific requirement.
• Another guy, who owns the item referred to in the joke by doing what was necessary to get it, states that they shouldn't use it in the manner it was being joked about.
• The irony of this is, this same guy wanted (and got, I might add) veteran abilities that he didn't earn by doing what was originally necessary to get them.

I just felt it was my right to point this out. Your semantics of whether something is considered a veteran award or not has no place here. 

No, it does have everything to do with it. You're pissed off because 'Veteran' abilities or whatever are now being given out due to the fact that marketing gave them to new subscribers. Those caught in the middle were just in their complaints. The new players weren't 'Vets' or 'Beta' players, thus negating the status of the abilities. Nowhere has it been said that the shirt Havocide has is being given away so his reaction would be the same as the one some 'Vet's had when their oh so special abilities started getting given out with new accounts. If it was and then he said 'I hope not' that would have made him a hypocrit.

The shirt is not being given away like Mobius or HJ-B, Beta clothing is not being given away like Mobius or HJ-B so his reaction is quite appropriatly the same as anyone with Beta clothing if they were to become Veteran rewards.

Wrong. I'm pissed because this guy wanted (and got) an 'exclusive' item he previously didn't have, but when it came to his own 'exclusive' item being given away, he said "hell no" for the very same reason that we gave as a reason not to give those 'vet' abilities away ("they didn't go to the fan faire, therefore they didn't deserve them").

Your argument has nothing to do with this and is best left to the other thread.

Wrong. I'm pissed because this guy wanted (and got) an 'exclusive' item he previously didn't have, but when it came to his own 'exclusive' item being given away, he said "hell no" for the very same reason that we gave as a reason not to give those 'vet' abilities away ("they didn't go to the fan faire, therefore they didn't deserve them".

Your argument has nothing to do with this and is best left to the other thread.

I'm with Vinia on this one, both items were handled very differently:

• One was given to anyone who put a deposite on their trip to Fan Faire
• The other was given out to pre-orders, an event and to anyone who subscribed a trial since early 2006 not to forget the odd White Room PVP battle

So I think it is unfair to say hypocrit as they are different scenarios, the Fan Faire shirt still has its exclusivity Value where as starting loads of trials and selling Mobius and HJBeta caused their value to be that of about 40 sticks of Gum each.

Wrong. I'm pissed because this guy wanted (and got) an 'exclusive' item he previously didn't have, but when it came to his own 'exclusive' item being given away, he said "hell no" for the very same reason that we gave as a reason not to give those 'vet' abilities away ("they didn't go to the fan faire, therefore they didn't deserve them".

Your argument has nothing to do with this and is best left to the other thread.

Lol, the exclusive items lost their exclusiveness with the trials. Beta clothing and the Verdigiris and Burning Eye Trench are still exclusive items and shouldn't be given out. You're having a go at him for having the same response as anyone would have with true exclusive items. Mobius and HJ-B aren't exclusive and hadn't been since they were given out with the new trials.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Wrong. I'm pissed because this guy wanted (and got) an 'exclusive' item he previously didn't have, but when it came to his own 'exclusive' item being given away, he said "hell no" for the very same reason that we gave as a reason not to give those 'vet' abilities away ("they didn't go to the fan faire, therefore they didn't deserve them"" width="15" height="15" />.

Your argument has nothing to do with this and is best left to the other thread.

Lol, the exclusive items lost their exclusiveness with the trials. Beta clothing and the Verdigiris and Burning Eye Trench are still exclusive items and shouldn't be given out. You're having a go at him for having the same response as anyone would have with true exclusive items. Mobius and HJ-B aren't exclusive and hadn't been since they were given out with the new trials.

They were exclusive to those people who pre-ordered, were there during the DotD event, or decided to play the game on a trial.

How is that exclusivity any different than the exclusivity for items awarded to people who submitted the most bug reports, subscribed during Beta, or attended a special out-of-game function?

Face it, the only reason you are arguing with me on this is because you are on the receiving end of this deal.

During the start of the first trial, Mobius and HJBeta were still tradeable, so everyone a lot of people got their hands on them anyway, thats was the first blow to their exclusivity.

Vinia wrote:

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Wrong. I'm pissed because this guy wanted (and got) an 'exclusive' item he previously didn't have, but when it came to his own 'exclusive' item being given away, he said "hell no" for the very same reason that we gave as a reason not to give those 'vet' abilities away ("they didn't go to the fan faire, therefore they didn't deserve them"" width="15" height="15" />.

Your argument has nothing to do with this and is best left to the other thread.

Lol, the exclusive items lost their exclusiveness with the trials. Beta clothing and the Verdigiris and Burning Eye Trench are still exclusive items and shouldn't be given out. You're having a go at him for having the same response as anyone would have with true exclusive items. Mobius and HJ-B aren't exclusive and hadn't been since they were given out with the new trials.

They were exclusive to those people who pre-ordered, were there during the DotD event, or decided to play the game on a trial.

How is that exclusivity any different than the exclusivity for items awarded to people who submitted the most bug reports, subscribed during Beta, or attended a special out-of-game function?

Face it, the only reason you are arguing with me on this is because you are on the receiving end of this deal.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Vinia wrote:

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Wrong. I'm pissed because this guy wanted (and got) an 'exclusive' item he previously didn't have, but when it came to his own 'exclusive' item being given away, he said "hell no" for the very same reason that we gave as a reason not to give those 'vet' abilities away ("they didn't go to the fan faire, therefore they didn't deserve them"" width="15" height="15" />.

Your argument has nothing to do with this and is best left to the other thread.

Lol, the exclusive items lost their exclusiveness with the trials. Beta clothing and the Verdigiris and Burning Eye Trench are still exclusive items and shouldn't be given out. You're having a go at him for having the same response as anyone would have with true exclusive items. Mobius and HJ-B aren't exclusive and hadn't been since they were given out with the new trials.

They were exclusive to those people who pre-ordered, were there during the DotD event, or decided to play the game on a trial.

How is that exclusivity any different than the exclusivity for items awarded to people who submitted the most bug reports, subscribed during Beta, or attended a special out-of-game function?

Face it, the only reason you are arguing with me on this is because you are on the receiving end of this deal.

So exclusive to everyone apart from those who subscribed within a certain time frame through no fault of their own... come on.

And no that's not the reason why I'm arguing, I'm arguing because you're being petty and because it was unfair to those that did subscribe between it all. I've already said that my account was credited with the abilities because I signed up for the early trials, but I didn't get the abilities, I didn't even know I was supposed to get them.

Finally if marketing decided to give away translocation programs or the awakened gear directly to new trial players as an incentive then I would again argue for the chance for those people who weren't here for the transition to get them despite the fact I got a program from an event.

I never once said that it wasn't unfair to those who weren't able to meet the criteria for these abilities. I agree with you that it is indeed, unfair.

I am however arguing that it shouldn't have been reason enough to make these abilities available to every player in the game. Not everyone can be exactly equal, having exactly the same abilities, wearing exactly the same clothes. There has to be a reason for some people to want to work harder than the rest, to want to do something that no one else is doing. This fosters innovation and commerce. Where would our market be without valuable exclusive items such as the Assassin's Mask or Fly in Ambers or Neo Frags or Burning Eye trenches? If everyone has the same stuff, there is no market. If everyone has the same stuff, there is no incentive to be an individual.

Just because you could have had something, doesn't mean you deserve to have it. For example, you had the chance to get these items, but you didn't take the opportunity. Some people call that "stupid tax"; the price you pay for doing something dumb or just not knowing any better. But watch out! Here comes the new quest that says, "no worries, we'll give it to ya anyway!" Oh, you still have to invest your time in getting them, but you didn't meet the criteria in the first place! So why should you get your way about this? Who's to say it will stop with this, that the next thing won't be some other exclusive item you didn't win under the circumstances originally laid out for it?

That's the problem with this game and indeed, this world: there are too many people who think they are entitled to the same things that other people have earned.

Havocide wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

If we do get veteran rewards, I predict that the first one will be the Verdigiris shirt, effectively pissing off all five people that went to FanFaire and got one.

Haha.

Id bloody hope not.

*CENSORED* please! I KNOW you're not going to balk at giving up your precious shirt, when you just got access to an ability you didn't earn in one of the two ways it was originally offered.

What a *CENSORED* hypocrit!

I have no problems with people having special items that they've won or earned. It's what makes them special items but when said item starts getting handed out to other people for simply starting to play the game or that have played a game for long enough it loses it's specialness which is why Havo gave that comment. I'm sure quite a few 'Vets' said the same thing before the trials gave out their special abilities. This is why 'Vet' rewards should be something new and why the trial rewards should've been something special to trialees only.

Don't belittle the trial incentive program. It's the same as anything other product; "try new Suds dish detergent, and we'll give you our Sparkly rinse agent free!" They want to entice new customers, but if you're down to a skeleton crew of game developers, how do you create new things for people that will do that job? Why invent something new, when you already have something available that was used in the same way?

And don't confuse what we're discussing here with Veteran Rewards. That's a whole different animal. 

Vinia wrote:

I have no problems with people having special items that they've won or earned. It's what makes them special items but when said item starts getting handed out to other people for simply starting to play the game or that have played a game for long enough it loses it's specialness which is why Havo gave that comment. I'm sure quite a few 'Vets' said the same thing before the trials gave out their special abilities. This is why 'Vet' rewards should be something new and why the trial rewards should've been something special to trialees only.

Don't belittle the trial incentive program. It's the same as anything other product; "try new Suds dish detergent, and we'll give you our Sparkly rinse agent free!" They want to entice new customers, but if you're down to a skeleton crew of game developers, how do you create new things for people that will do that job? Why invent something new, when you already have something available that was used in the same way?

And don't confuse what we're discussing here with Veteran Rewards. That's a whole different animal. 

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Havocide wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

If we do get veteran rewards, I predict that the first one will be the Verdigiris shirt, effectively pissing off all five people that went to FanFaire and got one.

Haha.

Id bloody hope not.

*CENSORED* please! I KNOW you're not going to balk at giving up your precious shirt, when you just got access to an ability you didn't earn in one of the two ways it was originally offered.

What a *CENSORED* hypocrit!

heh im not gonna get to into this little debate.

The shirt yes I wouldnt like it seen given out elsewhere. I earned it. I paid to go to fanfaire. I went, I got the tshirt.

As for the two abilities I didnt earn, infact I had an account that was meant to get them, but I never did. I didnt cry about it. And now everyone has them, and I earned them. I farmed 80 gums "> Sure I wasnt around in beta, but whatever these where trial items before I even played MxO.

I paid to have an ability that wouldn't be available to every other player in this game. It said so when I pre-ordered. Now I don't have that anymore. Why is the way I earned my ability any less important than the way you earned your shirt?

Again, I'm sorry for the luck of those people who didn't pre-order or play the trial. Or just didn't know about this stuff. But again, that doesn't mean it was right for them to make these abilities available to everyone, especially based on pressure from the community.

Oh, and I'll bet that if I go back through the threads where this has been discussed, your name will pop up more than once, Havocide.

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Vinia wrote:

I have no problems with people having special items that they've won or earned. It's what makes them special items but when said item starts getting handed out to other people for simply starting to play the game or that have played a game for long enough it loses it's specialness which is why Havo gave that comment. I'm sure quite a few 'Vets' said the same thing before the trials gave out their special abilities. This is why 'Vet' rewards should be something new and why the trial rewards should've been something special to trialees only.

Don't belittle the trial incentive program. It's the same as anything other product; "try new Suds dish detergent, and we'll give you our Sparkly rinse agent free!" They want to entice new customers, but if you're down to a skeleton crew of game developers, how do you create new things for people that will do that job? Why invent something new, when you already have something available that was used in the same way?

And don't confuse what we're discussing here with Veteran Rewards. That's a whole different animal. 

This whole thread is about veteran rewards, it's how this debate started when Neoteny suggested the Verdigris shirt and what I'm trying to steer it back to as two threads about Mobius and HJ-B and if they should have been given away is a bit excessive...

Havocide wrote:

ShiXinFeng wrote:

Havocide wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

If we do get veteran rewards, I predict that the first one will be the Verdigiris shirt, effectively pissing off all five people that went to FanFaire and got one.

Haha.

Id bloody hope not.

*CENSORED* please! I KNOW you're not going to balk at giving up your precious shirt, when you just got access to an ability you didn't earn in one of the two ways it was originally offered.

What a *CENSORED* hypocrit!

heh im not gonna get to into this little debate.

The shirt yes I wouldnt like it seen given out elsewhere. I earned it. I paid to go to fanfaire. I went, I got the tshirt.

As for the two abilities I didnt earn, infact I had an account that was meant to get them, but I never did. I didnt cry about it. And now everyone has them, and I earned them. I farmed 80 gums "> Sure I wasnt around in beta, but whatever these where trial items before I even played MxO.

I paid to have an ability that wouldn't be available to every other player in this game. It said so when I pre-ordered. Now I don't have that anymore. Why is the way I earned my ability any less important than the way you earned your shirt?

Again, I'm sorry for the luck of those people who didn't pre-order or play the trial. Or just didn't know about this stuff. But again, that doesn't mean it was right for them to make these abilities available to everyone, especially based on pressure from the community.

Oh, and I'll bet that if I go back through the threads where this has been discussed, your name will pop up more than once, Havocide.