Master Knife Thrower Buff

**Denary**

ok now I'm on a mission, the mission is to punt, to punt as many people as possible, and I thought I'd try MKT, my mouse hovers on my MKT upgrade and what do I see

now this is with max perception because I'm a gunner, as you can see there it gives 29pts accuracy bonus!?!?
lets compare it with SMG specialist which is the highest accuracy bonus buff for Guns.

now forgive me if I'm wrong but something just doesn't look right in this picture. there is a whole 19 pts difference in the highest accuracy bonus of thrown and guns.

**Sneaker**

Huh.

Could explain why Block Tactics + Hyper Defense doesn't do squat.

Spartan18

havent checked this at all yet, but one explanation i could think of for this is, doesnt spy style not give as much accuracy to thrown accuracy as the other styles give to their accuracies? it could be to make up for that. but if spy style is still giving a decent amount of thrown accuracy, then that number is a little too high i would agree.

**Denary**

Spartan18 wrote:

havent checked this at all yet, but one explanation i could think of for this is, doesnt spy style not give as much accuracy to thrown accuracy as the other styles give to their accuracies? it could be to make up for that. but if spy style is still giving a decent amount of thrown accuracy, then that number is a little too high i would agree.

thing is that Master assasin accuracy buff is low as any normal person, I think thats the reason we hate MKT's, I think the normal value was 20 or summat when it should have been 10, typo!

**Bayamos**

Block and Hyper Sense work fine if you're MA or Hacks. If you're Gunner, you're supposed to get hit.

Yeah, this number is a bit different than other builds, but it's a different build. Hacker Style has lower base accuracy than a MA's base accuracy. Spy style has lower accuracy than the base MA or gun styles. In MKT's case, it's meant to be a choice between a good accuracy buff, i.e MKT, or a good damage buff, i.e Master Assassin. Regular attacks (Deadly Throw, Paralyzing Throw, etc) do less damage than most MA or gun attacks anyway, so it balances out.

Spartan18

pack-hunter wrote:

Spartan18 wrote:
havent checked this at all yet, but one explanation i could think of for this is, doesnt spy style not give as much accuracy to thrown accuracy as the other styles give to their accuracies? it could be to make up for that. but if spy style is still giving a decent amount of thrown accuracy, then that number is a little too high i would agree.

thing is that Master assasin accuracy buff is low as any normal person, I think thats the reason we hate MKT's, I think the normal value was 20 or summat when it should have been 10, typo!

hmm, yeh if assassin is in line with all the other trees, then it would seem like MKT is too high. i mean 29 points from a GM upgrade is a little much.

**Denary**

Bayamo wrote:

Block and Hyper Sense work fine if you're MA or Hacks. If you're Gunner, you're supposed to get hit.

Yeah, this number is a bit different than other builds, but it's a different build. Hacker Style has lower base accuracy than a MA's base accuracy. Spy style has lower accuracy than the base MA or gun styles. In MKT's case, it's meant to be a choice between a good accuracy buff, i.e MKT, or a good damage buff, i.e Master Assassin. Regular attacks (Deadly Throw, Paralyzing Throw, etc) do less damage than most MA or gun attacks anyway, so it balances out.

2 things, the Master assasin damage isn't very high, it's only in the 15 pts I think, and yes they do less damage but it's right next to a tree that can take half yer HP away quite easily. IMO the whole MKT thing is a little overpowered.

**Bayamos**

Yes, but if you'd take the time to use the Master Assassin buff, you'd see the difference. Just reading the values means nothing if you haven't tried the build out.

As for the overpowered-ness of being able to take away half health in a few seconds, what about Ki Foot Sweep, Ki Punch, Wooden Dummy Drill, and my personal favorite of "holy crap that's a lot of damage," Tomo Nage? With those abilities, the MAs doing them can even get helped by other PvPers to get their opponent stated for high damage, with MKT if you miss, there's no "next state" that still allows high damage, and if you miss, that makes you prime target for the other reds in the vicinity.

Spartan18

i agree that those MA moves you stated cause a lot of damage. the difference is, we have to be able to get an opponent in IL, where as with MKT and guns, the abilities can be used outside of IL. but i am fine with that. i hate calling for nerfs of everything. i wish they would allow a couple MA moves to be used outside of IL though. just one or two lol.

**Denary**

Bayamo wrote:

Yes, but if you'd take the time to use the Master Assassin buff, you'd see the difference. Just reading the values means nothing if you haven't tried the build out.

As for the overpowered-ness of being able to take away half health in a few seconds, what about Ki Foot Sweep, Ki Punch, Wooden Dummy Drill, and my personal favorite of "holy crap that's a lot of damage," Tomo Nage? With those abilities, the MAs doing them can even get helped by other PvPers to get their opponent stated for high damage, with MKT if you miss, there's no "next state" that still allows high damage, and if you miss, that makes you prime target for the other reds in the vicinity.

MAs need states for high damage attacks, and an MKT can roll, root run back evade, put on disguise run back and do another, plus those specials only miss once or twice every 10 times because its simply special vs defence, when MA there opponent use other moves so it's special vs special

**Bayamos** · 12/27/2006 17:02:06

**Kemy**

Sneaker wrote:

Huh.
Could explain why Block Tactics + Hyper Defense doesn't do squat.

Sense is the defense against throwers, not Defense which is for hackers. SMILEY

But what does make me curious, how is your overall accuracy as an MKT compared to gunners? Not just the lvl50 buff, but your total accuracy, including the MKT buff itself.

**Pylat**

If I pimp out my hacker accuracy I can get it to around 131 with clothes and all. Funny thing is that with the same attributes I can get my thrown acc to 110+, and thats with a thrown acc bonus of +8% from my attributes.

If they toned down that MKT title buff I think a lot of complaints would be solved. I'll log on tonight and compare all the title buffs.

**RemagDiv**

Not only that, but Hyper-Sense gives the lowest amount of points, even lower then Hyper-Deflect.

I believe it's 49pts at level 50. Deflect gets in the 50-54 range, and both Dodge and Block go above 70.

**Pylat**

Ok, just done some comparing that the results are hardly surprising. I looked at a bunch of different title buffs and here's the accuracy bonus from them.

Network Attacker: +9
Ballista: +9
Howitzer: +9
Shadow: +5
MKT: +18
Master Assassin: +7
KFGM: +8
Karate GM: +7
Aikido GM: +5
Sniper: +10
SMG Specialist: +6
Expert Rifleman: +9
Duelist: +3

Seems MKT is WAYYYYYYYYYYYY greater than any others, does anyone smell broken? MKT beats nearly all others by a factor of 2, 3 in some cases.

And I also compared all the different styles and their base acc's
Coder: Melee + 65, Viral + 65
Handguns: +65
SMG's: +65
Rifles: +65
Hacker: +65
Aikido: + 65
Karate: +65
Kung Fu: +75
Spy: +67

So...
Spy style + MKT title buff = +85 base accuracy
Kung Fu + Kung Fu GM = +83 base accuracy
Rifles + Sniper Title buff = +75 base accuracy
Hacker + Any titles buff = +74 base accuracy

Does anyone see a pattern occuring, its complete BS that MKT's have a low acc, its the freakin highest out of all of them!

And another point, spy style has a thrown damage of +29, Karate has a melee damage of +29. So where exactly is the disadvantage of being an MKT? I sure as hell can't find one. Highest accuracy, dmg that is equal to karate.

Its time for people to stop denying the obvious and realise that MKT needs a serious nerf.