Development
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Bah, I probably give you guys too much credit as it is. :ppp Next time you don't understand something, try using your imagination. It'll be so much more fun than trying to chisel some cut and dried answer out of me. When did the W brothers ever really explain the Architect's dialogue in Reloaded, or the end of Revolutions? I can only dream of being able to be as deliciously vague as they were.
If you want to drop anything that looks too fun out of a story timeline you're composing, then hey, that's your prerogative; go for it! But like I said, stuff happens. This is not a movie, it is a game, and except for cinematics and missions, the story is to a large degree unscripted. I'm not going to do something in the game that I think is detrimental to the story, but I'm also not going to take time out to cater to whatever arbitrary divisions players want to make of things. Do what you like! Put your own spin on it!
Meh. I honestly don't see anything wrong with it. A slightly demented program who likes to have fun. And he's the freaking Effectuator. He brings back the balls to canon.
The Matrix is a simulation where rules change, bend and get destroyed in milliseconds. The Effectuator just does it with subway cars and screen things.
Canon is what you make of it. Are the comics canon? The fact that the Machines created an english bluepill with a deadly illness (incidentally a blessing), constantly changing timelines in order to combat some form of alien race who hurled rocks at earth and took out the Matrix-Australia?
If they did that in game, everyone would complain. People seem to think that the game has to be ruled much stricter. Does make you wonder whether or not the Effy's glasses would be considered horn-rimmed, though.
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Rarebit wrote:
Bah, I probably give you guys too much credit as it is. :ppp Next time you don't understand something, try using your imagination. It'll be so much more fun than trying to chisel some cut and dried answer out of me. When did the W brothers ever really explain the Architect's dialogue in Reloaded, or the end of Revolutions? I can only dream of being able to be as deliciously vague as they were.
If you want to drop anything that looks too fun out of a story timeline you're composing, then hey, that's your prerogative; go for it! But like I said, stuff happens. This is not a movie, it is a game, and except for cinematics and missions, the story is to a large degree unscripted. I'm not going to do something in the game that I think is detrimental to the story, but I'm also not going to take time out to cater to whatever arbitrary divisions players want to make of things. Do what you like! Put your own spin on it!
So it was meant as a serious addition to the story?
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Rarebit wrote:
If you want to drop anything that looks too fun out of a story timeline you're composing, then hey, that's your prerogative; go for it! But like I said, stuff happens. This is not a movie, it is a game, and except for cinematics and missions, the story is to a large degree unscripted. I'm not going to do something in the game that I think is detrimental to the story, but I'm also not going to take time out to cater to whatever arbitrary divisions players want to make of things. Do what you like! Put your own spin on it!
I know that and i admittedly do 'put my own spin' on it. Because i know how the game works, how it works on the several different levels. But what i'm saying is people on outside dontknow that. If theres event thats blatantly just for fun and contributes nothing to the story then untag it - simple. If nothing else just to make things clear for those on the outside.
I deal with them every day; my friends at college i talk to about the game, the forum posters on mmorpg and gamespot, in-game at uriah, redpill rescue, youtube. Not everyone knows how this game works, how its story is written, how 'stuff happens'. I know people who would frankly be disgusted at having an event like this considered part of the story. They'd simply disregard the game as a joke of the franchise. Because they don't know.
Without new players who stay on this game will just wither and die. And tagging/not tagging an event like this doesn't help.
Thats all i'm saying.
Message edited by cloudwolf on 03/24/2007 07:37:01.
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Rarebit wrote:
Bah, I probably give you guys too much credit as it is. :ppp Next time you don't understand something, try using your imagination. It'll be so much more fun than trying to chisel some cut and dried answer out of me. When did the W brothers ever really explain the Architect's dialogue in Reloaded, or the end of Revolutions? I can only dream of being able to be as deliciously vague as they were.
If you want to drop anything that looks too fun out of a story timeline you're composing, then hey, that's your prerogative; go for it! But like I said, stuff happens. This is not a movie, it is a game, and except for cinematics and missions, the story is to a large degree unscripted. I'm not going to do something in the game that I think is detrimental to the story, but I'm also not going to take time out to cater to whatever arbitrary divisions players want to make of things. Do what you like! Put your own spin on it!
I'm with Rare, as I said elsewhere when the word "Canon" was brought up. It's not relevant whether something is "Canon" or not, that's for you to decide. This party happened in the Matrix, with an event character...it happened, there's no changing it. Whether you want to refer to it is up to you. The same applies for, say, Halloween; I know some people that have incorporated it into their storylines (their storylines aren't "Canon" to you but they are still a part of the universe and "Canon" to those who wrote them or participate in them) and use it quite well. Then there's the weekly SI party, are those "not relevant" because they are not "canon" , they still get referred to, for example in The Sentinel or by Event Characters. In the end, decide for yourself, use your judgement and your imagination.
Reloaded had a Cave Rave scene, why is this any different?
Right, now i'm just confused. In the past Rare has himself said the game and it's development team have an obligation to continue and value the storyline the brothers have handed to them then the next it's "Stuff happens. Whether or not it's worth remembering is a matter of opinion."
What is it then? A serious obligation with fun thrown in or just one big joke?
Cos if it's the latter i just don't know how i should view this game anymore.
But what i'm saying is people on outside dontknow that. If theres event thats blatantly just for fun and contributes nothing to the story then untag it - simple. If nothing else just to make things clear for those on the outside.
i think the question to ask is - is an event ingame worthy of "canon" status purely if its six people talking to a live event character and doing nothing else for forty minutes, or something that ultimately involves punching people in the face or shooting at them in a big brawl with a bit of plot thrown in for good measure? and does the scope for "canon" not include stuff that doesn't necessarily involve any of the above? and if not, why not?
neo flying or stopping bullets, or twins turning into "ghosts", or werewolves or magical techno-keys that open up doorways to white corridors are at least as "far out / wacky / whatever" as some uber powerful program with a sense of humour that can change your rsi into a phonebooth for half an hour, and (to me, anyway) at least as valid.
I deal with them every day; my friends at college i talk to about the game, the forum posters on mmorpg and gamespot, in-game at uriah, redpill rescue, youtube. Not everyone knows how this game works, how its story is written, how 'stuff happens'.
...couldn't they just ask instead of dismissing it based on a throwaway judgment based on something they saw on a forum somewhere? if they base a throwaway judgement like that, its more of a failing on their part than anyone elses. if its really that important, they'd ask before dismissing.
I know people who would frankly be disgusted at having an event like this considered part of the story. They'd simply disregard the game as a joke of the franchise.
...how does someone get to the point where they'd actually be "disgusted" because of a handling of something in a computer game? they're that obsessed with the matrix franchise that it being "canonically incorrect" would disgust them, yet in the two years the game has been out they probably never bothered with the game in the first place? if the game is so unimportant to them, why would they care?
as for the ending to path of neo, let's be clear - thats in there because they thought Neo dying would be a "lame ending" for a videogame.
if you analyse what they replaced it with, the end sequence itself AND the music they play - they're razzing you.
well, not you. to be more specific - they're razzing the people who would be so antsy about the "prestige" and "sanctity" and, yes, "canon" of a film trilogy thats basically disposable entertainment treated as the Second Coming being altered or "messed with" that they would indeed find it "disgusting".
Message edited by Paperghost on 03/24/2007 09:02:02.
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Well i just shed a silent tear for those potential subscribers lost due to stubborn-ness around a personal timestamp. Past, present and apparently future.