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<title>Latest posts for the topic &quot;[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08&quot;</title>
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<description>Latest messages posted in the topic &quot;[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08&quot;</description>
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<title>Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Oh, I&apos;m very well aware that there may be some LV members in the EPN ranks, which only goes on to prove the inadequacy of the ability to keep any of their number in custody. I&apos;d like to know when Smith was ever in the custody of the Machines, same with the General I don&apos;t recall him actually being a prisoner of the Machines. Morpheus was once as far as I&apos;m aware but Zion, Neo facilitated his escape.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It seems as though even though the fault is squarely on EPN&apos;s shoulders you would prefer to continue the childish route of changing the subject rather than accept the unchangable fact that LV escaped because EPN could not hold them and could not even vet those who may have contact with them.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;If your going to talk about inadequacy exactly how long&amp;nbsp;have EPN, Zion and the Merv, been causing trouble for you? Again look at yourself before you start criticizing others.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;The General and Smith were both outdated programs that while not in custody were under the service of the Machines and thus the machines responsibility to terminate. The failure to do so and the results of their actions&amp;nbsp;rest on the Machine&apos;s&amp;nbsp;shoulders&amp;nbsp;by the same logic your&amp;nbsp;trying to accuse EPN to be the blame for LV and everything they do.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I am well aware that this is indeed&amp;nbsp;EPN&apos;s fault that several LV members have escaped and don&apos;t recall ever saying other wise. I&apos;m just pointing out that the Machine is hardly one to talk about such matters and certainly not fit to criticize us for something they themselves have been unable to fixed since the dawning of the Merv&apos;s empire.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:05:56 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;The General and Smith were both outdated programs that while not in custody were under the service of the Machines and thus the machines responsibility to terminate. The failure to do so and the results of their actions&amp;nbsp;rest on the Machine&apos;s&amp;nbsp;shoulders&amp;nbsp;by the same logic your&amp;nbsp;trying to accuse EPN to be the blame for LV and everything they do.&lt;/blockquote&gt;Actually, I only stated that EPN were incompetent in holding LV in custody, had their own members help with LV&apos;s escape or the whole thing was a show by EPN to get some heat off LV&apos;s backs. So in any case I believe that any subsequent actions by LV are party EPN&apos;s fault.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for your logic, following the same stipulations, The General and Smith did not escape Machine custody and, even though it&apos;s besides the point as for now I&apos;ll trust that LV weren&apos;t under the employ of EPN, they certainly weren&apos;t in the service of the Machines when they committed their actions. So by that logic the situation of EPN and LV is entirely different to the Machines and Smith/The General.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Plus FYI, I am not a Machine, nor do I speak for them. Still, it&apos;s funny how we&apos;re not fit to criticize, yet you&apos;re fully capable and right to do so.</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:38:04 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;Petty squabbles resolve nothing.&amp;nbsp; Isn&apos;t it more important to reacquire your captives than to debate over who is or is not&amp;nbsp;qualified to call you on this blunder?&amp;nbsp; The fact of the matter remains...they escaped.&amp;nbsp; Deal with it.&amp;nbsp; Next time they&apos;re caught, they might not have such merciful captors.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:38:26 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Garu</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;Actually, I only stated that EPN were incompetent in holding LV in custody, had their own members help with LV&apos;s escape or the whole thing was a show by EPN to get some heat off LV&apos;s backs. So in any case I believe that any subsequent actions by LV are party EPN&apos;s fault.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for your logic, following the same stipulations, The General and Smith did not escape Machine custody and, even though it&apos;s besides the point as for now I&apos;ll trust that LV weren&apos;t under the employ of EPN, they certainly weren&apos;t in the service of the Machines when they committed their actions. So by that logic the situation of EPN and LV is entirely different to the Machines and Smith/The General.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Plus FYI, I am not a Machine, nor do I speak for them. Still, it&apos;s funny how we&apos;re not fit to criticize, yet you&apos;re fully capable and right to do so.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I have already said it is EPN&apos;s fault that LV members have escaped but also that the org you work for is hardly without&amp;nbsp;its own share of problems in that same area and has no room to ride that high horse.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;The General and Smith both escaped Machine termination. As for my logic its the same as your own, that because they were both apart of the Machine it was the machine&apos;s job to terminate them when necessary, the Machine failed to do so thus it is their fault party for the problems those programs caused. The situations are not different as they are both a failure on the part of the controlling group to maintain control and keep a potential problem in check. Replace Smith with LV, termination with captivity, and you have the exact same picture.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I never accused you of being a Machine, was speaking metaphorically.&amp;nbsp;Lastly if you interpreted&amp;nbsp;my words as criticism i apologize. my meaning was only to point out that the Machine, as well as any org, has no room to down cast&amp;nbsp;another organization when it falters as they all have shown incompetence in all areas at one time or another.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 15:40:08 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;As for my logic &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Gami, when did you ever know logic?</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 16:15:44 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Fatmop</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Fatmop wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;GamiSB wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;As for my logic &lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Gami, when did you ever know logic?&lt;/blockquote&gt;The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts. </description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:57:01 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Mindsweep</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>I&apos;m pretty sure I was just doubting his skill in the realm of constructing a logical argument.</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:07:26 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Fatmop</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;postbody&quot;&gt;Or perhaps the capture of LV by EPN was simply a ruse. Any of these outcomes are entirely plausible.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;I&apos;ve seen you make some ignorant comments regarding EPN previously, but I believe we have a winner with that little gem.</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:17:39 GMT</pubDate>
<author>shinpseudo</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>I think maybe you should concentrate less on the lower-tier operatives in LV escaping and more on the general gesture by EPN in an attempt to protect innocent lives. Maybe stop, I don&apos;t know, ragging on them?</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 18:36:08 GMT</pubDate>
<author>eval</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>Didnt take long now did it.</description>
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<pubDate>Sun, 21 Sep 2008 19:35:10 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Kybutra</author>
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<title>Re:Re:Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;shinpseudo wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;cite&gt;Vinia wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;postbody&quot;&gt;Or perhaps the capture of LV by EPN was simply a ruse. Any of these outcomes are entirely plausible.&amp;nbsp;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;I&apos;ve seen you make some ignorant comments regarding EPN previously, but I believe we have a winner with that little gem.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Ignorant? Really? LV splintered from EPN with many members of EPN still being sympathetic toward them and their cause, they were taken captive by EPN when only their leader was at risk and they subsequently&amp;nbsp;escaped rather quickly and apparently easily from EPN. I&apos;m sorry, but that qualifies as being rather suspect. Who knows how high their support in EPN&amp;nbsp;goes.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;So ignorance on my part? I would say&amp;nbsp;I was considering very possible situations and despite eval&apos;s suggestion a gesture does not necessarily show underlying intentions.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;However despite all this, I really do hope to be proven wrong, I hope that the reality is that&amp;nbsp;EPN offered LV a way out&amp;nbsp;which they blatently ignored and&amp;nbsp;if so I&amp;nbsp;will put up my hands and admit to being so when the LV situation has been laid to rest and I see appropriate evidence to that effect.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:08:10 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Croesis</author>
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<title>Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Garu wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;p&gt;Petty squabbles resolve nothing.&amp;nbsp; Isn&apos;t it more important to reacquire your captives than to debate over who is or is not&amp;nbsp;qualified to call you on this blunder?&amp;nbsp; The fact of the matter remains...they escaped.&amp;nbsp; Deal with it.&amp;nbsp; Next time they&apos;re caught, they might not have such merciful captors.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Eh, might as well just sit back and watch the show. I find it rather entertaining thus far. Though, that is just me.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As I&apos;ve said before: EPN should&apos;ve just handed them over to us and we would&apos;ve dealt with them without them having to get their hands dirty. We could&apos;ve even staged a scene to make it look like we got them from their custody to even soften the blow of us dealing with them but no - it didn&apos;t happen and now this happened.</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:49:28 GMT</pubDate>
<author>BloodlustV</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;EPN did what they had to do in this situation and they captured a dangers man who could have destroyed the Matrix. The Machines and Cypherites really should be thankful to the EPN&apos;s instead. &lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 02:56:06 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Mindsweep</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>I knew it was too good to be true.</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 15:19:27 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Tesma</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>And I recall something about Veil having people on the inside, who helped break her out....so...pardon my sarcasm when I go &quot;OH NO! SOMEONE ESCAPED! THIS NEVER HAS HAPPENED BEFORE!&quot;</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 18:57:22 GMT</pubDate>
<author>LtCmdr_Tsusai</author>
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<title>Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;LtCmdr_Tsusai wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;And I recall something about Veil having people on the inside, who helped break her out....so...pardon my sarcasm when I go &amp;quot;OH NO! SOMEONE ESCAPED! THIS NEVER HAS HAPPENED BEFORE!&amp;quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Perhaps a systemic failure in Zion&apos;s preferred method of justice?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&apos;Course I&apos;ve never heard of Zion or EPN ever coming close to even having trials, so maybe your method of justice is just to hold everyone in minimum security until they coax the dog with the keychain over to the cage.</description>
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<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:59:51 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Fatmop</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>Because existence is based purely on whether one has or has not heard of something &lt;img src=&quot;http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/images/smilies/2786c5c8e1a8be796fb2f726cca5a0fe.gif&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; alt=&quot;SMILEY&quot; width=&quot;15&quot; height=&quot;15&quot; /&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 08:22:45 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>In any normal societal justice system the average citizen or outsider would at least be aware through some type of publicity that a justice system EXISTS.</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:27:13 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Fatmop</author>
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<title>Re:Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;cite&gt;Fatmop wrote:&lt;/cite&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;blockquote&gt;In any normal societal justice system the average citizen or outsider would at least be aware through some type of publicity that a justice system EXISTS.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;br /&gt;What do you think the council is for? &lt;a href=&quot;http://mxo.mxostory.com/wb_dn1/wb_forums/results.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&amp;nbsp;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:45:07 GMT</pubDate>
<author>GamiSB</author>
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<title>Re:[11.1.5] He has had a change of heart - Syntax - 9/12/08</title>
<description>&lt;p&gt;The thing I found most disturbing about this was Shimada&apos;s assertion that &amp;quot;it is all too easy to do what they did&amp;quot;.&amp;nbsp; Really?&amp;nbsp; It&apos;s easy to go on a killing spree against innocents because you hate what they don&apos;t even know they&apos;re helping?&amp;nbsp; &lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;I never&amp;nbsp;claimed to understand the EPN mindset, and after hearing that, I doubt I ever will.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;p&gt;Illyria&lt;/p&gt;</description>
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<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:57:06 GMT</pubDate>
<author>Illyria22</author>
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