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Community
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Community News
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Nearly 1,000 logs on "Archival Science".
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Re:Nearly 1,000 logs on "Archival Science".
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Othinn1
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0
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04/23/2008 05:24
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Yasamuu wrote:
Othinn1 wrote:
Yasamuu wrote:
Good work Othinn and anyone who has contributed logs to the site!
Isn't there a few you've made that I haven't received yet? Or was that Zudrag? Either way, take your time. I'm in no hurry. ^-^
Probably both of us, I normally just leave my chat log running from when I log in to when I log out. So there's a fair amount of stuff I've got, I just need to sort through about 100mb of chat log ~_~ Heh, I know what you mean. But I usually let mine run, then after a week or two I move the chat log file to a different place on my computer. I put a bunch of numbers and/or letters after the file's name so it doesn't accidentally copy over another chat log file. When I start the game again, a new chat log file is created. I do this so I don't get one giant chat log.
But that still means I've got a lot to go through. Note that I've only got up to chapter 9.1 up on the site. -_-
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Community
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Community News
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Nearly 1,000 logs on "Archival Science".
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Re:Nearly 1,000 logs on "Archival Science".
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Othinn1
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0
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04/23/2008 05:17
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Yasamuu wrote:
Good work Othinn and anyone who has contributed logs to the site!
Isn't there a few you've made that I haven't received yet? Or was that Zudrag? Either way, take your time. I'm in no hurry. ^-^
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Community
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Community News
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Nearly 1,000 logs on "Archival Science".
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Nearly 1,000 logs on "Archival Science".
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Othinn1
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0
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04/23/2008 01:58
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Two more logs, and the site will have hit the 1,000 logs mark (note that this number includes the entries for the various character/item details, documents, unarchived missions, etc.)
I'd like to use this time to inform everyone that the site now has free screenshot hosting. Plus, there's a new search system, so you don't have to rummage through a mountain of logs to find something you're looking for.
And I'd like to remind everyone that absolutely anyone can contribute to the site. The logs can be for old or current events. And if you feel the need to keep a log or screenshot to yourself for the time being, then that's perfectly all right. My site isn't going anywhere anytime soon. ^_~
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Development Discussion
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Update Discussion
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Update 56 Discussion
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Re:Update 56 Discussion
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Othinn1
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0
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11/15/2007 04:54
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"Fixed an outdated reference to the truce in Zion's "seduction" graduation mission, "Meet with Niobe." (Thanks Othinn1.)"
*sighs* It just means I have to find a way to go through the mission again. -_-
And I doubt I'll ever be able to replay all the Zion graduation missions anytime soon. Unless the QA server reopens. Then I'll just /copychar Othinn over to there and redo them.
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Development Discussion
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Development Roundtable
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Changes to hacker visual effects
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Re: Changes to hacker visual effects
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Othinn1
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0
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02/13/2006 00:42
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ThePigeonKing wrote:
Now, as for the little "screen" of circles and grids and squares and lines that show up in front of a player when they start using a hack, I don't think all of that is really necessary to get the point across that you're "manipulating code." It actually doesn't look like manipulating code at all.
Those effects are based on the holographic interfaces seen in the Zion Control construct in Reloaded. In fact, the circular and square shapes are taken directly from the scene.
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Mechanical insects? Why?
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Re: Mechanical insects? Why?
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Othinn1
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0
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01/11/2006 19:24
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I can't remember where I heard it (possibly one of the Revisited DVDs or some other Matrix special ... I know it was a visual special, though I believe I read it somewhere as well), but supposed the Wachowskis feel that the insect form is the best form that nature has ever produced (or something to that effect). After seeing the Machines, the Assassin (which is supposed the Wachowskis' idea), and the Insectoids in PoN, I have a feeling that they like bugs. ^_~
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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killing off morpheus lol =P
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Re: killing off morpheus lol =P
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Othinn1
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0
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01/11/2006 06:51
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greaterdemon07 wrote:
um since you can be reconstructed how do you know morpheus cant i mean is there some rule saying that you cant reconstrict a ships captain so the whole dramatic "death" of morph is all a scam hes probially in hideding :mantongue:
First, this topic will probably be moved because it's in the wrong section of the forum.
It's been stated several times in the story that the Assassin's bullets contained a killcode that shut down the auto jackout system. Currently these bullets are missing, so naturally the organizations are on the lookout for them.
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Development Discussion
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Development Roundtable
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Future Release Info...
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Re: Future Release Info...
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Othinn1
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0
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02/16/2006 13:38
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RogueA wrote: I seriously don't see what's wrong with releasing some information about new content. As long as it dosen't give away the storyline, then what's the problem?
There's the potential problem of promising something that is currently in development only for it to be cancelled.
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Vector - Hostile
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Next Renaissance - Vector
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The Past
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Re:The Past
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Othinn1
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0
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09/11/2007 04:24
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It's always cool to learn more about a LESIG character's background. ^_^
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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New Cinematic
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Re: New Cinematic
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Othinn1
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0
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01/21/2006 05:12
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FrozenFyre wrote: With the "two lovers" storyline, it was obviously there because they died in public- but what happened to the people, are we safe in presuming that they auto-jacked out and are on a HvCft somewhere or d'you think the damage was more permanent? With the death being so public i don't know how their RSI's could be erased so maybe they had to wait for the Machines to take them away before they could re-enter the Matrix, possibly with an RSI change? Dunno- what do people think?
We only see the headline of the article. For all we know, part of the article might say that the bodies of the two "lovers" vanished mysteriously at some point.
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Vector - Hostile
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Next Renaissance - Vector
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Tomorrow is Never Promised
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Re:Tomorrow is Never Promised
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Othinn1
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0
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11/17/2007 10:37
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Sweet. These kind of stories from LESIG are always appreciated. ^-^
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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Possible Plot Hole!
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Re: Possible Plot Hole!
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Othinn1
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0
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01/23/2006 22:09
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Actually, Vashuo died because Toorima/Veil sabotaged his cranial jack. She implanted a device that would sever the connection when it received a signal. And as the person above pointed out, there's nothing to suggest that the two who fell off the roof are dead. The Sentinel is notoriously wrong about things due to its point of view.
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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Possible Plot Hole!
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Re: Possible Plot Hole!
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Othinn1
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0
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01/24/2006 11:32
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xAJx wrote: Ok
Here is something that I have been thinking about recently:
- In the Choice and Consequence event we met the crew of The Novalis II. It was the event where Neurophyte was either to be rescued or left to die. Back in the day of Monolith and there contact with the game (where There was Regression, Method, Iterator, Lineoise, and other servers) each server had there own ending. On Regression we saved her - however on others she was forced to either join the Machines and in one instance I believe she died. Now SOE merge the servers together, and Regression being Iterator and Method joining to make Recursion - what becomes of Neurophyte?
We don't know. But Walrus claims that she hasn't been forgotten, and that they are supposedly working on something concerning this.
xAJx wrote:
- The Boxmaker (Pandoras Box) - We know that he was brother to the Keymaker and that he has some hatred towards The Merovingian when he alligned with Dr Voss a.k.a The Antedeluvian. This seems to be lost too since The Boxmaker is still out there, does he still seek revenge? And we never really get an over all end to the Story Arc in Pandora. How will SOE continue this one?
I haven't done anything related to Pandora's Box yet, but they have said that there will be more. In fact, I remember Walrus saying that a certain item from Arc 4 will be needed to access Arc 5.
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Community
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General Discussion
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New trees we could use
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Re: New trees we could use
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Othinn1
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0
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08/17/2005 05:12
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RogueA wrote:
Terminate Connection - Like Disrupt Connection but better! 0 damage If Successful, 75% chance of sending the target back to the loading area!
Ugh. I'm sorry, but the reason this effect was removed from Disrupt Connection and Crash was because it was annoying, especially to people in the Archive.
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Archived Forums
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Archive Construct
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Ask the devs an MXO question
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Re: Ask the devs an MXO question
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Othinn1
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0
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01/04/2006 12:07
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If the Wachowskis decided to make a filmed or animated story that took place during the "MxO era" of the Matrix universe, what elements from MxO would you enjoy seeing in that story?
One thing I'd like to see in that hypothetical story is a scene where a group of characters have to open a Pandora's Box. That would be a nice fight scene. ^_~
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Archived Forums
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External Playtest Discussion
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Crash every 2 minutes?
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Re: Crash every 2 minutes?
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Othinn1
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0
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01/17/2006 18:01
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Sounds to me like you're in a high-traffic area. That used to happen to me the first few days, but now it doesn't happen since I don't stay in highly populated areas.
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Merv hovercrafts?
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Re: Merv hovercrafts?
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Othinn1
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0
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01/21/2006 05:18
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WarIock wrote:
I'm not sure, I think I remember there being some official word on some of it... does anyone have anything?
"Humans have repaired a few hovercraft, but the majority of Zion's "lift capacity" now comes from hoverbarges. Constructed mainly of parts salvaged from the destroyed hovercraft fleet, the hoverbarge is a new type of craft that can carry a large load of redpills to broadcast depth. Previously such craft were impractical, because the large tunnels to the surface were under strict surveillance by the Machines. Now, however, these enormous vehicles are free to rise slowly up the broadest shafts to perform mass-insertions of redpills into the Matrix. In addition, most of Zion's unarmed transport hovercraft were not present at the docks during the battle. Normally such craft would never be deployed so close to the surface, but with the Truce removing the threat of Sentinel attack, Zion can now use unarmed transports for Matrix operations. Some have claimed that there are also permanent broadcast stations being built in tunnels near the surface, where Zionites can enter the equivalent of the Machines' pods for long-duration operations in the Matrix. Such claims are no more than rumors at this point, though."
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Archived Forums
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Archive Construct
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Ask the devs an MXO question
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Re: Ask the devs an MXO question
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Othinn1
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0
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01/04/2006 12:43
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Paige6 wrote:
Make sure your shoes are organized!
ROTFL
And remember to take your sunglasses off when you meet her! Everyone did that, except Morpheus and Trinity at the beginning of Revolutions. Even Niobe and Ghost took off their shades when they met her in EtM, and yet no one seems to do this in MxO.
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Community
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General Discussion
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New trees we could use
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Re: New trees we could use
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Othinn1
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0
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08/17/2005 05:33
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Spadz wrote:
I find the ENTIRE HACKER TREE ANNOYING. Please remove it.
Okay, I'll remember this when you're losing health or you're on the ground and in need of a "rez".  Patchers are Hackers too. Message Edited by Othinn1 on 08-17-2005 06:34 AM
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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QA Server Mission Problem 01: Thallia
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Re: QA Server Mission Problem 01: Thallia
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Othinn1
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0
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01/26/2006 10:37
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Have you checked for a second mission area in the same building, possibly on a higher or lower level? There are certain buildings and missions that spawn a dual mission area. In fact, I believe that happened to me once in that same mission. Message Edited by Othinn1 on 01-26-200610:38 AM
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Smith's Host
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Re: Smith's Host
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Othinn1
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0
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01/22/2006 20:50
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The event where the security guard "killed" Neo most likely happened before the Redpill Rescue level, but after the first movie. Bluepills don't have any memories of what happens during an Agent takeover. The bluepill that Smith inhabited when Neo destroyed him from the inside at the end of the first movie is most likely dead.
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Smith's Host
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Re: Smith's Host
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Othinn1
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0
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01/23/2006 04:56
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Megaritz wrote: I didn't really understand what that "I killed you" stuff was about. *clueless*
The security guard deluded himself into believing that he'd killed Neo. During the level, the security guard says "I shot you, but the bullets stopped. That's impossible".
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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Sugar Shack 33: Exile Contact Missions: Raini: Enfant Terrible
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Re: Sugar Shack 33: Exile Contact Missions: Raini: Enfant Terrible
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Othinn1
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0
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01/27/2006 09:46
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sugaree wrote:
1. Careful What You Wish For
“Recover high jacked data.” Is this an editing blemish?
No, actually. In fact, back in beta, I was about to write a report on this, until I decided to look it up and found that it was an acceptable variant of "hijack".
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=hijacked
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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Sugar Shack 33: Exile Contact Missions: Raini: Enfant Terrible
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Re: Sugar Shack 33: Exile Contact Missions: Raini: Enfant Terrible
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Othinn1
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0
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01/27/2006 12:50
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sugaree wrote:Since it turns out that Raini's also a druggie, I assumed that this was either an editing blemish or a sly foreshadowing.
It still could be foreshadowing.
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Commandos are EVIL
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Re: Commandos are EVIL
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Othinn1
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0
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01/25/2006 00:45
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Shouki wrote:

The General is a program...do we REALLY want to trust this man?
I don't think anyone does. Niobe doesn't. She's said so herself. Unfortunately, she sees the General as a way to gain firepower and soldiers for her vendetta against the Merovingian.
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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inventory space for killcodes
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Re: inventory space for killcodes
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Othinn1
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0
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01/29/2006 07:46
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You'll need 15 empty spaces. Many people have said that the researchers give you three each, but it's really five. Don't worry, they auto stack like normal items do. It's just that, for some reason, the researchers don't give you three stacks of five items, but fifteen separate items that only stack when they reach your inventory.
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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inventory space for killcodes
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Re: inventory space for killcodes
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Othinn1
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0
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01/29/2006 11:30
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Sabus wrote: i dont think u understand... all u need is THREE slots.... trust me- i've already done it. You get five bullets, five stakes, and five holy waters, which all auto stack.
You must have been lucky then. Because I had the same problem as the original poster, and I fixed it by freeing up 15 slots in my inventory.
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Neo
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Re: Neo
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Othinn1
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0
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01/29/2006 07:57
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liph wrote:
Well in Reloaded when Smith was taking over Neo's body once he gets back to the real world he tells Morpheus and Trinity that when Smith was making a copy it felt like he was in that hallway again it felt like dieing So in Revolutions i always thought when Smith took his body over Neo was dead right there so the machine god knew this and deleted Smith from the system knowing that Neo was dead and there was nothing else that could be done than to get rid of Smith
Wouldn't that mean that everyone Smith took over is dead? O_o
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Neo
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Re: Neo
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Othinn1
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0
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01/29/2006 07:44
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The voice on the recording is Cryptos.
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Watch this guy get attacked by agents....
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Re: Watch this guy get attacked by agents....
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Othinn1
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0
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02/01/2006 09:12
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I see the new Redpill fad has reached the UK. They're even hanging out near a phone booth. 
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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Watch this guy get attacked by agents....
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Re: Watch this guy get attacked by agents....
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Othinn1
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0
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02/01/2006 13:07
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WGAnubis wrote:
It sounds like hes asking for Neel.
That's most likely it. He's calling to the second guy, whose name is "Neil" (either that or his nickname is "Neo", though the former is more likely). Note that the second guy looks torn between helping his friend, and potentially getting into more trouble with the police. Also, one of the policemen specifically tells him not to interfere while his friend is calling out.
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Archived Forums
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Archive Construct
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Ask the devs an MXO question
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Re: Ask the devs an MXO question
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Othinn1
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0
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01/06/2006 16:52
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The blur animation happens when you have Kung Fu active and you block. The latest dev journal said that we'll be seeing more of this with the combat changes. Message Edited by Othinn1 on 01-06-200604:52 PM
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The Lounge
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Matrix Universe
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The island is a ripoff of the matrix!
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Re: The island is a ripoff of the matrix!
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Othinn1
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0
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02/01/2006 14:27
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greaterdemon07 wrote:
the matrix: im going to enjoy watching you die mr.anderson MY NAME IS NEO!!! the island:you really are a unique one 6 eco MY NAME IS LINCON
"You are Number 6."
"I am not a number, I am a free man!"
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Community
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Redpill Rescue
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quote/spellcheck???? PLZ HELP!
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Re: quote/spellcheck???? PLZ HELP!
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Othinn1
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0
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11/17/2005 16:36
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The quote button is the dialogue bubble to the left of the emoticon button. The spellchecker is the red check at the very right of all the post buttons.
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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Exile Gangs and their Contacts
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Re: Exile Gangs and their Contacts
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Othinn1
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0
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02/05/2006 10:55
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Not all of the neighborhood contacts are aligned with the neighborhood gangs. According to the Atlas, Greene is a bounty hunter who's in Manssen to kill the Blooddrinkers there. And the Legion is actually against Violet, but she keeps successfully fighting them off.
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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Mission Series Reset Token?
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Re: Mission Series Reset Token?
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Othinn1
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0
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02/05/2006 20:13
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DontEatRawHagis wrote:
Megaritz wrote: They are waiting to bring them back for the historacle mission feature, which will be released soon.
When did they announce this? *Eyes Megaritz with gun in hand* You better not be lieing.
Message Edited by DontEatRawHagis on 02-05-200606:12 PM
The patch notes for Update 40.
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Syntax
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World Discussion - Syntax
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So wats your play time?
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Re: So wats your play time?
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Othinn1
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0
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10/30/2005 12:49
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43 days, 8 hours, and 41 minutes.
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Syntax
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World Discussion - Syntax
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Sever arteries
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Re: Sever arteries
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Othinn1
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0
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10/31/2005 10:36
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Probably the same person who claimed that Logic Cannon 2.0 is an exploit.
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
|
The purpose of Neo's RSI fragments? (Warning: Long Post with Quotes and Transcripts)
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The purpose of Neo's RSI fragments? (Warning: Long Post with Quotes and Transcripts)
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Othinn1
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0
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02/16/2006 00:48
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This will be a long post, with a number of quotes from transcripts and storyline articles, so be careful. I've re-read the storyline articles concerning the "Race to Find the One" event, and I've come to the conclusion that the only purpose for Neo's RSI fragments was to give the three organizations power to fight off the false Agents. This power came in the form of the "Neo's Insight" item. Let me start at the beginning, with the article that announced the event.
"Rumors spread of inexplicable emanations within the Matrix, granting vast power to those who can find and control them."
During the event, Niobe talks about where the fragments came from. Here's a transcript ...
"It looks like Neo made certain changes to the Matrix while he was here. We're not sure why or what they're supposed to do, but the Machines have discovered it too. As you can imagine, they're not happy about it. The Machines are throwing all their best code breakers at it. But now we think that by dismantling the programs Neo put in place they've triggered a failsafe. Neo's residual programs are fragmenting, but we think that's what they were designed to do. The fragments are flowing through the Matrix now and it looks to some people like they might have left us a message or maybe even a weapon. What we need to do now is find these fragments and discover what they really are and what they really do. It's a sure bet the Machines and the Frenchman will also be gunning for these things so watch yourselves. The truce isn't going to mean a thing when you cross paths and you all want the same scrap of code. We also have another problem - there's another group out there too. They seem to be marked by bright lights but they can disguise themselves - be careful. As far as numbers go we need as many as possible. If you get one of the special fragments we have a series of clandestine drops set up on the streets of the Matrix - get your frags to one of these collectors and they'll give you some additional resources that you can use to keep looking for more. I know some of you may have heard other things on the street from Captain Morpheus but I urge you to stick to the facts as I have outlined them to you here. Ok that's enough standing around - get out there and hit the streets people - there's no time to waste!"
Later, she talks about Neo's Insight and the fact that the Merovingian is gaining power due to his operatives gathering more than Zion's.
"Ok I think we can begin now. If any come later, please fill them in. It is very important. I thank you for coming Warriors of Zion. But I'm afraid I'm not here to pat you on the back. So did you all get it? You know, the... I hope you know what I'm talking about. This is... it is amazing, you can't help but be amazed. Until you realize that for every single fragment we have managed to collect, the Merovingian's rodents have collected two. The connection between the total RSI fragments collected and the... the gift in our inventory. Listen to me, Warriors of Zion! Listen well, and don't even think about interrupting me. Yeah sure you're awestruck by the power in your hands, you felt it when you read the enclosed message, right? How did this happen? What does it mean? I don't know. But seeing is believing, and the truth is staring you in the face. Now buckle up warriors, because if it hasn't dawned on you yet, what I'm about to tell you is going to change everything. The power we wield in these gifts is nothing compared to the power wielded by the Merovingian and his people. Do you follow me? What I'm saying is that yesterday, we weren't able to collect as many RSI Fragments as the Frenchman. If the Merovingian and his toadies continue to outsmart us, he grows in strength beyond even his wildest dreams! It simply cannot come to that. Today, tomorrow, from here on out! You need to work harder. You need to work smarter. You had better be listening, because I don't know any other way to say this. There is only one way to stop those freaks from leading their ringleader, and that is by beating them to the punch. We find these red-eyed agents, destroy them and recover their fragments. And when we think we've done enough. We'll do it all again, only faster then the first time. If the Merovingian isn't stopped, it will become open season on the Zionites faster than you can say crepes. And there will be nowhere to hide. Do you hear me soldiers? Do you understand the magnitude of what we are up against? I should hope so. Then the time for talk is over. Move out soldiers, you fight for Zion! Don't let me down. I will be in contact."
From what I've seen, the other organizations' representatives basically pointed out that the more fragments the other organizations get, the more powerful they become. At one point Flood displayed his version of Neo's fragmented RSI and said "This is only a fraction of the power we now wield". At another point, the Merovingian did the same and stated that part of Neo's power now belonged to him. Plus, earlier in the event, the Merovingian said this about the fragments: "These pieces, once combined, work in concert together, to emanate still more powerful vibrations". Possibly the most important message in this theory of mine is the Oracle's first speech.
" You see, there are forces at work here beyond you or perhaps even me. Powerful entities that aren’t happy with the agreement Neo made. But there’s a chance you can stop them. You and your friends. And you have Neo to thank for that. That’s right, somehow he was able to anticipate this. Honestly, I don’t know how. He was just special like that. He’s left pieces of himself in the Matrix. You’ve seen them. They were all collected by the intruders, the ones with the glowing eyes. You’ve all done a wonderful job taking them back. But you’ve been selfish, squandering something that was meant to be shared by all."
And finally, while this is a minor point compared to the above statements, here are two quotes from the event's recap ...
"On the dawn of the third day, players received 'Neo’s Insight' for their efforts in collecting fragments. The gift brought toughness to those in the leading Organization on their given server, toughness that would be needed to meet the challenge of a greater influx of red-eyed Agents." "Unfortunately, the Oracle’s message fell on deaf ears. Organizational leaders, drunk with the notion of possessing the power of The One, greedily set out to grab power for themselves instead of heeding the Oracle’s warning."
In closing, it seems to me that Neo's RSI fragments are not a resurrection plan of any sort. He left them because he knew the three organizations would need them to fight off the false Agents. Enough fragments would generate "Neo's Insight" amongst the members of the organizations. He also left means of opening a line of communication to the Oracle so she could explain all of this. Oh, and in case you were wondering about the purpose of the Shapers ... Didn't a number of people gain an item called "Neo's Gift"? I think it replaced Neo's Insight after the event. I certainly didn't get it, but apparently a number of people got it, most likely those in the organization that "won" the event or collected the most Shapers on the respective server. My reasoning for this comes from a line in the Oracle's first speech ... "Whoever is able to control the shapers will share the greatest portion of Neo’s gift." It's just a theory, but if you re-read the text from that event, it does seem to make more sense, at least to me.
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Gameplay Discussion
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Missions and Storyline
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The purpose of Neo's RSI fragments? (Warning: Long Post with Quotes and Transcripts)
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Re: The purpose of Neo's RSI fragments? (Warning: Long Post with Quotes and Transcripts)
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Othinn1
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02/16/2006 11:45
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Phybersyko wrote: The Merovingian of enumerator all recieved a 9% bonus of Neo's Insight.
I think Machines got 3% and Zion got 6%
That's because (at least from the storyline's point of view, I'm not sure if this would have worked in-game) the organizations weren't sharing the power. They were grabbing it for themselves, and received uneven amounts.
If the purpose of this event was to resurrect Neo, then the organizations would have attempted to win back the fragments that the other organizations had instead of having a race to see who collected the most. Plus, it makes more sense that Neo would leave a way to strengthen the organizations in a fight against a common enemy. Leaving a way to resurrection himself seems selfish.
Phybersyko wrote:
I don't recall exactly, but Neo's Insight doesn't even work anymore. you can load it into the hotbar, activate it.. everything... but it doesn't work anymore.
According to one of the devs, the special items that give players buffs aren't supposed to be eternally active, they're supposed to be shut down eventually because it would give veterans an unfair advantage over newer players. This explains why Neo's Insight/Neo's Gift and the false Agent killcode are not active anymore (but this doesn't seem to explain why Zion Hardware Requisition/Glimmer of the Source/Merovingian's Boon are still active). From a storyline's point of view, one could say that Neo only intended the power to stay active until after the battle against the powered up false Agents at the end of the event. Or maybe it simply ran out. Feel free to come to your own conclusions. The unfortunate side effect of this event is the fact that Morpheus used Neo's fragmented RSI to help strengthen his cause (or maybe Neo meant for that to happen all along? ^_~)
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