Bayamos wrote:

I dunno, I always took the voice clip of someone saying "Some may have guessed that Neo's new persona is female" as a pretty rigid definition of what Edmontons was supposed to be.

Was this one ever ingame though? I remember seeing it in the game files but never ingame.

Signs wrote:

You're assuming you've been presented with all relevant information.  It's true, the Architect knowledge relates specifically to the structure of the simulation, and the Oracle's knowledge relates to the human mind (and soul, potentially), but the Matrix consists of both the simulation and the mind, they are inextricable from each other.  And I think it's an important point that our knowledge of the Machines, from whatever perspective it comes in a particular instance, comes mostly from a perspective of being within the Matrix, and the model of the Machines presented in the Matrix is just that: a model.  It's what the Machines "think" we can comprehend, based on our own actions as human beings.  Simply put, we really don't know what goes on in the Source, and because the nature of The One, like all things in the Matrix originates from the Source and inevitably returns to the Source, we really don't know where it might turn up next, or even what it ultimately is.  We get perspectives on the nature of The One, it's a statistical anomaly, it's a state of self-knowledge, it's a spiritual rite, etc.  But these are merely interpretations of what is ultimately ungraspable.  As the nature of The One is essential to the nature of the Matrix itself, I think it would be bad storytelling NOT to bring the concept back to the forefront of the meta-narrative, in some form, eventually.  Granted, this was not the focus of Matrix Online, and this was a good thing, but if another chapter in the Matrix series is ever created, it will have to deal with what becomes of The One, because this idea is so central to the nature of the story.

We were given all the information, skepticism only goes as far as "if's" and unless you can show any hole there is no reason to think there is something we don't know. The Architect had no reason to lie to Neo or hide anything from Neo about his purpose and reason for being. With the combination of info given by the Oracle and Architect we learn exactly what is involved with "The One" program and what created it and it's purpose.

And while the Matrix is a combination of mind and simulation this doesn't prove any lack of knowledge on the Architects part. As I said he knows all possible causes and effects, he just can't predict which one a person will choose. Secondly our knowledge of the Source and machine thought is irrelevant. The Architect knows exactly what happens and tells us exactly what happens. The One inserts the code he carries into the program which resets the simulation. That program he carries is a onetime deal that is created within the Matrix and inserted into a person of their choice.

Which brings us back to square one, the program Neo carried is gone as he died before it could be uploaded. This was even confirmed by both Agent Gray and Pace. Meaning the only thing that could bring about another "One" is gone forever. 

Signs wrote:

This is what is supposed to happen.  The One's code is not supposed to return in the form of another until the system is reset, but in the Matrix, as we all should know very well by now, a lot of things happen that aren't supposed to happen.  Because of what Neo did, the Matrix has entered entirely new territory, and I doubt anyone can really predict all that might happen next.  Also, in "The Matrix: Revolutions," the Oracle implied that the Architect's analytical perspective was inherently limited, and that he is thus not as omniscient as he likes to let on.  The Architect is not the final authority on what is possible in the Matrix.  According to the Architect, what Neo did should not have been possible.

Your theory depends heavily on an "if" scenario, one that has no cause or reason to bring it about.

Also you’re confusing the authorities of the Architect and the Oracle. The Architect is the end all knows all of the Matrix. He knows exactly what can and can't happen within its programming and what will cause which reaction. However he is limited by numbers and can never accurately predict what actions a person might take, this is the Oracles realm. In other words he knows all the options and outcomes of each but never which a person might take.

Also what he says to Neo in Reloaded is if anything a bluff on his own part to attempt at changing Neo's mind about which door he was going to take. As we discovered in MxO’s story the Machines are barely surviving off the Matrix as is and had Neo failed it was game over for everyone human or machine. There is no other level of survival left for the Machines which Neo knew and called his bluff on it.

Possibly, however the way I understood it the BIP had been placed in the Ouroboros mainframe right after it was recovered from Trinity. But I could be wrong here.

Also the name anagram still has me believe that she was intended to have some connection with Neo of which Trinity's BIP had none.

I would sudgest making it somewhere that is independent of any player made/run. We all think its a good idea now but two years down the road what happens when the admin decides he doesnt want to pay for it/update it/ keep it spam free etc.

We have pages on Facebook and Myspace. I say use those as a hub if anything.

Signs wrote:

Also, I disagree that Neo's death automatically means The One cannot return.  There are numerous ways one could continue the story of The One without saying "Neo didn't really die."

But there aren't. In Reloaded the Architect tells us that "The One" is an inherit flaw in the Matrix that accures once and will not accure again untill after the system is rebooted. Neo put an end to this by dying before the code inside him could reset the system and by doing so ended teh cycle makeing it impossible for another "One" to be made within it.

Reseting the Matrix from a story perspective also undoes everything that was acomplished in the movies as the overall goal of the Oracles and later Neo's was to remove everyone from their dependency of the cycle so that a peace could be made. 

Just by going back and looking over what we now know we can answer some of the questions about who Sarah Edmontons was suspected of being.

The Revolutions Script writes Neo off as being dead (it states "Neo dies" and mentions his lifeless body) and Keanu himself has commented saying that his character died at the end of the film. So already we can write Neo off the list since the W bros intended for him to die. Bringing him back after all negates the whole "martyr" thing they were going for and really is just bad writing.

Also we can scratch off her being some kind of "BIP" similar to Trinty since the Trinity one is the only one of the two remaining.

My personal opinion is that the character Sarah Edmontons was created by either the General, Morpheus, or the Machines for the intentions of restarting the war, gain further support, or root out the extremist within Zion. There was a machine or Zion mission i believe in the chapter 5 to 7 range where you could hack a computer that said there is no record of anyone called "SE". It’s not the big of a stretch to interpret this as Rarebits way of closing that loose end and announcing her as never having existed in the first place.

Star Wars: The Old Republic FTW!

Just finshed my first year on my way towards a degree in Social Studies Education.

Pentothal wrote:

MetaLogic wrote:

Pentothal wrote:

PBlade wrote:

I agree, this is kind of a liberating experience.

That said, if MxO suddenly gets renewed, we're all screwed.

Indeed, Operative.

Why would we be screwed?

Because everyone knows the majority of LESIG identities, Operative.

How is this any different then before? :p

Gamespots was also bleh, as was G4's. Aparently the demo that is being shown is only being shown to those at e3 and the public wont see it for awhile.

For any news coverd at e3 here's a thread on the ToR forums following it for any that dont' check their forums daily.

http://www.swtor.com/community/show...ead.php?t=32161

Photoshoped!

I can tell by some of the pixels and having seen quiet a few shops in my time.

Garu wrote:

Kybutra wrote:

screens or it didnt happen

 

MotorZ wrote:

Holy crap that was badass. Too bad the actual game doesn't look like that.

Agreed but I wouldn't be surpsied if they came somewhat close on high detail. I have to say though it was funny listening to the idiots on g4 go on about not being sure if it was gameplay or cinimatic footage.

odj wrote:

Metal Gear Solid: Rising for the 360

First Final Fantasy now Metal Gear. My oh my what is a sony fanboi to do.

Wolfess wrote:

 Gami, you were the perfect go-to guy for me, 

Was always a pleasure lending a hand, but I do have one question... what was with the black font! :p

*edit*
ah how i missed screwing up my post on these forums.

1.78 for regular in Hammond LA last I saw but that was before turkey day.

Othinn1 wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Othinn1 wrote:

Hydrazine wrote:

We started the meeting with questions and ended the meeting without answers. Oh, except that EPN withholds information from Zion... huh?? That guy shouldve been booted for disrupting the meeting, starting false rumors about EPN, and disrespecting half the group that was there because they are EPN.

 

   ...

   You know, I would make a long-winded post about how it isn't a "false rumor", and that you only think it's false because you're inside and looking out, but it would probably get this thread locked. ¬_¬

*recalls messageing Othinn of locations of EPN events and chat logs numberous times*

 

   True, but you're one out of about three EPN players that actually helps me.  It seems that the rest of EPN on all three servers would rather see me face down in a river.

Point is some of us made sure that those who wern't intersted in personal gain and were intersted in the comunity as a whole knew what was going on. No information realted to events or intel has been witheld from those people and if it was it was revealed later to them when it was most relevent. 

And to the people complaining about the data the Oracle gave EPN? yeah no one, not even EPN knows what the eff that is so turn your complaints towards Rarebit and not the org.

Othinn1 wrote:

Hydrazine wrote:

We started the meeting with questions and ended the meeting without answers. Oh, except that EPN withholds information from Zion... huh?? That guy shouldve been booted for disrupting the meeting, starting false rumors about EPN, and disrespecting half the group that was there because they are EPN.

 

   ...

   You know, I would make a long-winded post about how it isn't a "false rumor", and that you only think it's false because you're inside and looking out, but it would probably get this thread locked. ¬_¬

*recalls messageing Othinn of locations of EPN events and chat logs numberous times*

Demetri Martin > Dane Cook and Jeff Dunham combined. 

1. As Pyraci said the story needs a bit more of a push in the philisophical department. While the story is good and a decent continuation of the movies its missing this one factor that was apart of why the Matrix Triolgy was so influential and outstanding. 

2. Reinstate the EPN and Cyph orgs as well as make them into proper organizations givieng them their own missions and own agendas, in other words none of this splinter org BS by devoting more time into their philosphies and agendas. 

privaronT wrote:

Eh I think in some regards you get the wrong idea about where I stand on things because I look at it alot more grey than most. With that said I see your points and on the most simple aspects I agree with them. LESIG in its current form was an utter failure. That's not knocking the human beings that invested time in it but its just stating a fact. Promoting subscribers many of which were strong personalities that had no businuess in what arguably was a volunteer public relations job was an utter move of desperation to pawn off job responsibiilities to subscribers and buy time.

However the removal of the sub organizations was a poor move. The inclusion of them was an even poorer one. People like me you and Phrack back in the day should have been told to pound salt and never been given tags. They fed a lame duck of a situation for two and a half years and eventually the development snapped from the work load and scrapped the organizatiions entirely.

 Also what I mean by this is that interactive content should have been worked on to be better not entirely removed. I feel if Rarebit had tried harder had less of a negative attitude towards the community at times and let it sneak into his work which he has admitted to us before that things could have been pushed to a higher standard. What Rarebit did was refuse to focus on character progression personal RP relationships and really maximize what he had left.

Monolith was known for their events being cool because we felt we were part of the team. Like if we owned really hard in Zion Niobe would appreciate what many of us got as a result were caddy inside digs via email along with selective perpetual handouts towards the end. The system failed for two reasons staffing which was unavoidable and the second which I hold the team fully responsible for a lack of motivation and a negative attitude that affected the game over time in this stressful job. 

I dont know how many events I went to where the Live Event Character would literally just sit around afk kill mobs for screenshots and be non responsive to the community. I really get the impression he hated dealing with us at these events for awhile. Many times the LO's didnt even know what was going on at the event and they had to rely on me sending them tells to let them know what was going on. The one with Veil and crew was a perfect example. If it wasnt for Bayamos and Evalr tracking Wright and Bay telling me than me relaying it to the LO's they never would have even found the event.

The points Im trying to make here is the Live Events in their current form were in many respects a social failure just as much as a resource based one. I believe Rarebit even admitted that frankly and took some personal blame. I really feel he should have tried to approach the events and the content distribution with a more positive free flowing interactve approach before axing this entire thing and giving up on it.

Ill agree the corpse wasn't there because really the best way to look at it was a system and a very cool idea at that in desperate need of life support and I feel the development team allowed their personal issues and feelings to also motivate the choices that were made and I suppose that really just doesn't fly well with me.

So truth be told Im not going to sit here and preach doomsday this system may work out just as well as the last one did or even better but let me remind you thats not a high standard in any respect given how poorly they were done towards the end. The real thing MxO should have tried to aim for is doing a better job at what they were failing at. Not spinning fanfaire feedback which I was present at by askng Mave who was drunk as could be if he didnt like critical missiions than mocking the storyline for an hour for two days with a sarcastic tone.

You can dislike me for having such a negative attitude but you know frankly these things I have brought up have proven themselves over time. This move was just as much of a developer giving up on a hard work load as it was a logistical choice and I dont respect that a bit because this just isnt an MMO it was a creative liscence that has been butchered and watered down by personal choices.

Look I understand where you and everyone else comes from. My only gripe is at people who claim that there is no progression for the story when there is or that they can't access two thirds of it and try to make excuses as to why they shouldn't have to work at getting it. Outside of that I'm right there with you. I pointed out to Vil that while I like most of the update there is still alot of work left to be done in making this new system all it can be within MxO. The long periods of time in which there is nothing to do for everyone that's already completed and gotten everything they wanted out of that stories quest. I would take the old system over this current one any day but I still understand why it was removed.

privaronT wrote:

To answer your question about how you kill something that was never there. You may not be killing it but mutliating the corpse than calling it art usually is frowned upon in most circles.

Next time a system isn't working my personal gut feeling is that cutting out existing content forms replacing them with limited new ones and removing certian ones completely to ease things up is a bad idea. 

 

The corpse is GONE. Again go back and read Vinia's post. We haven't had a real "dynamic" story telling system since LET and even then it was only the Neurophye event which was a joke for the servers that decided to kill her. This isn't some brutal annihilation of some broken being its a replacement for a broken malfunctioning and waste of resource system with one that works and has been proven to work.

The existing content before this update was more and more going unused and uninteresting. You can see a dramatic decrease in the live event discussions int he past year and quiet a few people were not even running the weekly crits. Why keep a system that the majority of the player base isn't even using?

Villemar_MxO wrote:

The ability to grind to 50 is not the issue here.

Vinia's post is technically true, but her point is a semantic one and not what we are trying to get across.

I'm looking at the Big Picture here.   Actions have consequences that may not be evident right away.

The issue is that people are complaining that they can't access 2/3rds the story when they can. You don't need to grind to 50, you can get on a lvl 5 alt and ask someone from that org to run it while you tag along.

Vinia's post pointed out that this game hasn't been "dynamic" for a long long time. You have been arguing that this last update killed that. How can you kill something that wasn't there to begin with?

Obviously not because if you were you would see that the old system wasn't working. It limited the big picture to only adding small tiny pieces to it while using a large amount of time to out daily events that more and more people were not attending or caring about. I can't count how many times I've read on these forums or talked to people that said they hadn't run their crits sense 8.1 for any org. Old system was screaming to be put out of its misery and was causeing just as many people to leave. Come to think of it privaronT's thread is the only "good bye" thread I hve seen sense this update.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

Please, spare us the condescension and insults.   If Rare removed all missions and NPC's and you could only get XP by banging your head against a wall, I'm sure you'd yell at those of us who dared express concern and insinuate we were all lazy jerks for not sitting for hours on end banging our heads against a wall.  I get it...you want this game to be just like WoW or Lineage but set in a modern setting and with 0.00000001% of the player base.  Good for you.  Just dont come crying to us in six months from now about how no one is online anymore.

And you addressed my point where?

If you and others are tired of the insults that your seeming all looking for a free ride try a new argument because all your saying right now is "I shouldn't have to work that hard to get all the story." For chirst sake the solutions people have given hardly take that much effort at all and all you and everyone else complaining that you are somehow denied 2/3rds of the story because your not a certain level makes yourselves out to be lazy.

I've never once said that this is how I wanted the game to be, its not and I'd take the old system over this any day. The current system can be completed in a days time leaving 5 weeks of nothing in between updates this is it's flaw. Not that you can't experience 2/3rds of the story but that after you do your left with 5 weeks of nothing. However at the same time I realize that the old system was broken and way past it's prime which some of you seem to be unable to comprehend despite Rareibt outlining it for everyone in a thread prior to this update.

Go back and compare live event from these past 6 months to a year ago, anyone can see the steady decline in attendance and discussion. The amount of time needed to maintain that was ridiculous and took way from other areas. In terms of development and time management the new system is far better then what we had. We went to a WoW like system because it works and is an effective usage of developer time, something that the old one was not.

And look at whose arguing against you, people that have also been here for 4 years+. Your point is mute. Especially the dynamic one after Vinia's post.

cloudwolf wrote:

Yes, they won't go away. I know that. They're repeatable to facilitate the 'Quest' bit of grind and trade. But come next update, by the sounds of things, we still won't be able to access the other two org's mission sets. One of the major selling points of the previous Archive system was the ability to run missions from all three sides of the story. This feature appears to have been unneccesarily removed from the new system.

Thats all I've ever said needs to be changed. I've already voiced my support of a level focused storyline set in unused parts of the city. It allows the story more creative freedom than before. But that doesn't mean that freedom should come at the price of only being able to experience one third of it. Having to have org alts was never a requirement before and the missions had plenty of "loyalty" rep caps like they do now.

What? No seriously where does anyone get that idea that they wont be able to get the other two orgs mission sets? Have you just ignored everything anyone's said in this thread? Ask a friend, grind an alt, god forbid you have to converse with someone or work for something in an MMO! I'm sorry but that's life, even in games you don't just get an instant win button. You have to work at it and if you want to get everything out of the game you have to put forth a bit of effort. If anything this is a plus, it shows who's really dedicated at learning and experenceing everything and who all just wanted a free ride with no work.

Done.

Good luck ^^

Villemar_MxO wrote:

I agree, and would be more than happy if our overworked dev had 90% less of a workload.  Very happy with new lowbie Neighborhood mission content and RSI masks.  I don't want the baby thrown out with the bathwater though.  I ask myself, what makes this mmo special and unique?  Its the dynamic and evolving story based content.  Now the content is staic just like every other mmo.  Its unique appeal is gone.   If our dev is putting in 1000% of the work of a normal person, he should be allowed to drop it down to 50% if he wants.  Lord knows he deserves it.  But by doing that I don't think we should reinvent the wheel and remove this game's uniqueness.  Scale waaaaay back, but dont kill the golden goose in the process.

You may get all the forum cq's you want but just dont be all surprised if the player base drops really drastically over the next year.  And lets say you have an org trifecta, three 50's, you still can farm all the org quests in a few days.  What are you going to do the rest of the 5-1/2 weeks?  Hang around Mara?  There's no reason to concurrently sub (for me anyways).  If I get the other 2 up to 50, and get the org trifecta, I'll probably go on a 4 weeks subbed/2 weeks unsubbed schedule.  Or take longer unsubbed breaks, since the quests are static and you can access them any time now.

In regards to intancing things in DT and having level requirements for that, I say keep them in as hard an area as you want.  Set them in Creston and Startford Campus for all I care.  If you have the rep, and you want to give it a go, that's on you.  Personally I like the idea of my lvl 25 with 100+ rep having the extra danger and challenge of dodging purple mobs, purple building security, and Agents.  If you cant stand the heat, don't go there, but I'd welcome the challenge. 

By the way, the new nub content is just for us vets, forget about trying to get new players.   All pretense of that is gone now.  And there's now a huge disincentive to fully experience lowbie content as most everyone is going to powergrind now to get exactly back to where they were one week ago.

Its nice and I enjoyed running it but its kind of moot now.

 

But what you don’t seem to grasp is that the daily events was the last breath of the baby in the tub and that it was so weighted down that it drowned and had to be thrown out. What made this MMO unique and special was that it was an experiment into a new form of MMO systems and mechanics. That experiment is over and the results have proven them to be ineffective in time management dev side and money spent to maintain. So we are left reverting it back to a system that works which I am very thankful for as most people would have just up and left it where it was and abandoned it all together. At least we have a dev who is willing to revert to something that works and keep some small pieces of the experiment working rather than just up and leave it.

If people leave because of this then that just shows how dedicated they really are. The only reason I have stayed with this game is its story and as far as I can tell that story is still progressing. Sure the way that it is presented has been altered but it is far from unattainable as many seem to assume and anyone that stays for the same reason I do should at least be able to tell that there still is a story and it is still progressing. Maybe a little slower than before but it is still there.

Then amount of time it takes to complete the quest is irrelevant to this discussion however I do agree and stated on the update discussion that it needs some work done to it. However again, I’ve voiced my complaint and went on my way. However it is a little to early to assume that nothing is going to happen in those next five weeks. It’s only week two now and we have the org meetings coming on week 4. This is a start at spreading the content but again it still needs work.

The lowbie content was just an example of the problems the former method of updating had. The daily events  (which you cannot possibly deny that the excitement and discussion of was steadily dwindling) to up way too much time that content that should have been introduced years ago was only now going in.

Villemar_MxO wrote:

We understand the mechanics of what needs to be done to access all three org's storylines, but we also understand that this game has gone from a dynamic, evolving game into a static game in one fell swoop.   For many of us the evolving, dynamic aspect of this game is what has kept us here for almost four years and is what has made it such a unique and enjoyable experience. 

Then you obviously don't understand the role that you and everyone else plays. You are the player, Rareibt is the developer. What rarebit decides is what happens. All you can do is voice you opinion which you already have. Sense you have done that stop complaining and work with what you have been given while hoping that next update something changes.

Solutions to the problems you and others claim there are have been given. Just because you don't want to talk to someone outside your faction or buddy list doesn't null the point that all one has to do to experience this supposed "unattainable content" is ask either a friend or someone you meet "Hey can you run your orgs 11.3 quest so I can experience that part oft he story" which I'm sure if he decided to post here is exactly what Rarebit would tell you to do.

Our "dynamic evolution" was proven to be a money and time consumer back when we had a LET. It was only a matter of time before the daily events would stop and the efforts would be moved towards traditional MMO systems rather than our radical ideals of an MMO. Obviously we have reached that point in which the amount of time devoted or needed to keep the story going at that level is to much for one developer and there are other ares that need to be worked. Case in point the new content added to Tabor, that sorta thing for noobs should have been added when Uriah got a make over but because of time issues we just got it.

cloudwolf wrote:

But if details are going to get freely shared anyway (which they should, especially if people's suggestions arn't taken on board), why not Archive the new style missions in the same way the old ones were, opening them up to all orgs an update down the line? It's just denying people the chance to experience the story for themselves instead of reading it like a book. This is a game, an interative storytelling medium, for a reason.

Because they won't go away next update and can always be found in Hampton ready to be run at any time. It's stupid to have an archive of a quest that can be found still inside the game. Also they are designed specifically for down town meaning only a lvl 30 can safely run them in the first place. The critical missions before hand were geared for Richland/Westview and sometimes were compatible with international and DT.

People need to get it through their head that the story's progression is no longer through the means of missions and events. It is now cinematics and quest. All this time most of you have spent bitching about a grind could have gotten your character at least to 30.

phi wrote:

Oh. We only lose Liasons? I thought LESIG was getting canned. If not then YAY!

In some cases not even that. While the position and role of "liaison" is gone the characters still remain. Harkee and Catalyn from Syntax come to mind as former LOs that are sticking around and still acting as operatives.

odj wrote:

phi wrote:

the joker/cypherite spy in zion story took a year to pan out.

Of course LESIG had motivation back then before they got pooped on

Fixed.

You'd be amazed at how many worked behind the scenes rather then held liaison positions which is the only LESIG job that's changed it would seem.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

At least she had one, and is entertaining, at that. Shimada might as well not have existed.

*Edit: You'll notice I didn't say Veil has a deep background. She's as simplistic as it comes when you get down to psychobitch, but a personality is a personality, and it's been a proven enjoyable one, so why knock the cliche if it still makes you smile at the antics?

And you will notice I didn't correct you on anything said about Shimada. Only Veil, who's background was made up by LET not Rarebit. And not everyone finds it enjoyable, compared to the characters from the movies and some of the others we have Veil is right down at the bottom of the list, heck I'd put her just a notch above Shimada.

Give me depth over cliche and purpose over looks any day.

ZippyTheSquirrel wrote:

Rarebit plays all the characters. Except Shimada. Okay, he played as her sometimes, but so rarely that her character didn't evolve enough.

Then one day, Rarebit's thinking, "You know what? I should kill off some major story character to make the players think the story is still very intense! Who can I do for that... actually, why not kill off two birds with one stone! Now I don't have to worry about you anymore, ah haha."

Whippow, Shimada's dead.

Meanwhile, Veil actually has a nice rump so why kill her off?

The path of least resistance...

fixed

Veil is your typical cookie cutter stereotype of the cool sophisticated psychopath sexy female. Her back story and "evolution" (if it can even be called that) is the same as any other character that's ever been this part. She's as dimensional as a cardboard cut out and the only depth found within her is about puddle deep.

Rarebit wrote:

Overridden snowflakes?

Procurator wrote:

GamiSB wrote:

Something to consider. When the war started up again Pace and Gray both stated that they did not have the program needed to reset the cycle.

Perhaps slightly off-topic (and I have a feeling we've discussed this before, quite some time ago), but did they really say they didn't have the program necessary? I thought the wording was more like there were missing factors or conditions, i.e. that the Cycle wasn't relevant.

The only thing that makes Neo different than any other redpill, as far as we are aware is the program in him used to reset the cycle. Gray states that they are missing something that allowed them to reset the cycle. The Architect told Neo that the reset occured when he went into the source and that a code he carried was recompiled. Pace tells us that Neo is dead and that the anomaly gone.

Neo is the only factor in the cycles reset that has changed so we can concluded that because Neo is dead the code within him is unattainable which is what Pace and Gray are speaking of.

cloudwolf wrote:

Remember this is all relavent to how far forward Rare plans the story. We can't nessicarily trust everything that a character says during a live event (given their faily on-the-fly nature) when future details may not have been set-in-stone.

The last thing I'd want to do as a writer is be stifled creatively by something I said off hand several years ago =P

Rarebit as on countless occasions dropped seemingly obscure hints in past events that later helped reveal key points in future events. We were seeing images of Neo speaking with DEM and an oligarch (probably Halbron) months before the war even broke. Case in point Persephone's meeting with Black Widow. She invited Perseph to eat lunch a YEAR+ before it happened.

Something to consider. When the war started up again Pace and Gray both stated that they did not have the program needed to reset the cycle.

Second the BIP has never been confirmed to be the program that does this. It's only function that we know of was a measure of control over those that needed to be freed from the pod system but even this is vague.

Trinity though has some connection to the BIP definitely. The message in 11.3.1 Zion mish is "Hear that" which is said by Trinity to Cypher.

Asna wrote:

Garu wrote:

Danielle Wright alledges that she entered the Matrix as "a complete consciousness" when the Sentinels attacked her lab in the Real.  She now seeks the BIP probably with the same intentions as Halborn.  She wants a body again. 

The BIP is the program created by the Oracle that bestowed the One with "the power to reshape the Matrix as he saw fit".  If Wright acquires the powers of the One then its likely that we're all doomed.  I suppose the level of doom depends on your perspective.

Please let this not be true. That would be the stupidest thing I've ever seen since midichlorians.

Please PLEASE can we not reduce Neo's abilities *or* Trinity's love for him into a stupid PROGRAM. Ugh. No. God no. I won't believe that until the Wachowskis themselves show up and say that yes, Trinity's love was a subroutine in a cookie she ate back before the events of M1. And then I'm going to scream and write an epic poem about how my beloved Matrix trilogy has gone the way of Star Wars Eps I-III.

/as

./agree

Garu wrote:

Significance is subjective I suppose.  Even still, it's time for the Mervs to loose one, imo.

./agree