Acquinas wrote:

Forgive me if I am wrong, but are you suggesting there is a determinant and predestined outcome for our existence that we do not influence? If so, then I would have to disagree. An underlying, perpetual characteristic of existence is that from one cause there is an undetermined amount of outcomes, or effects. We are governed by reaction, and any consequences that stem from the initial action were conceived from it.

There is no predestined outcome because the future has not happened yet, although I cut out all those theories of parrallel dimensions and that. BUT I do belief that we do not have something called free will. Any action has only 1 reaction (a reaction can be made up of many reactions itself, though, but in the end, it is one reaction at a "time", even if the action itself could have more possible endings, only one is ever achieved. There IS an infinite ammount of possibilities... for us because we cannot predetermine the outcome whatsoever. But we don't have to. Consequence does that. Causality, wherever it stems from.

There is no such thing as choice but the human mind, nor anybody or anything else can get near to accepting this. Everytime I try, because I belief it, I hit a barrier which tells me no. It is exactly this barrier which created the words choice, luck, random.


@ Global Warming: /quote GamiSB: Global warming is a pain in the @$$

Here I am.

GamiSB wrote:

Man doesn't need to work for the Machine to work with it. I would say that any Machinist that can keep the human within him alive is closer to fulfilling Neo's ultimate wish for this world then any Zionist is but the trick is keeping that which is human alive within them. Case in point the Tetragramaton. They work for the Machines but have given up most of the rights they had as humans to do so. (Not to say there work isn't needed or helpful)

Like I said elsewhere.

Peace will come threw Trust
Trust will come threw Freedom
Freedom will come threw Choice.
This is what Neo showed us.

Both Zion and 01 are afraid of the other because neither trust the others choices in how to better there city. If each would take a moment and examine where the other lies I believe that we can take these past events and use them to better our worlds.

The truce was formed at a time when neither side knew what would happen. Not even the Oracle could predict the outcome of Neo and Smith's fight so who can say that Man and Machine could predict the events that would unfold after the formation of the Truce.

I propose an amendment. An amendment that will allow man, machine, and program their right to choice. So that all humans, red, blue, or freeborn are never enslaved and denied their freedoms and rights as human beings. But also that the races that depend on human energy are never worried about a shortage of power and can move their resources set currently on controlling the human race, to bettering everyone.

We are each others creations; the least we could do is work together.

 

((with "Threw" you mean "Through"? :-/ ))

I usually talk about choice and that there are at all times 2 choices, with consequences for- (e.g. a "third" choice which is part of one of the first 2 choices) and unforseen. But actually, I don't belief in choice at all. I don't belief in such a thing as "luck". They are phrases I use to express something I, as individual, cannot understand. If I use them I don't mean them but rather express my lack of words for what I really want to say: There is no choice, luck. Not our mind nor the Machine Mainframe nor the Oracle have choice but consequence. The Origin is unknown, the so called "Big Bang"?

We humans call it choice.
The Machines call it a non-predictable variable in an equation.
The Exiles call it Consequence.

Our future is in our own hands, is it not? If there is going to be a better future for all of us, why not lean back and wait till it comes?
Our choice does not change the future but we don't know the future, thus we try to enforce a future. But how can we enforce a future if we cannot even control the present, if our actions are merely electical signals interpreted by our brain?

Do we have "choice"? I hope so, since I am soley "human" but then again... I don't belief it but whatever I do, I cannot accept "fate".

What I read about Smith in the archieves also influenced this. But in contrast to him, I also don't belief in "purpose". But without purpose we do not exist? What is existance? What is life? What is choice? What is... reality?

Again my simple mind tries to interpret phrases it cannot. A barrier of the mind. The limit of perception but not interpretation?


Jeezus, I fairly got off-topic here. But well, when I saw Gami's final stage being "choice" I just let "go".

Under the barrier set by our existance we must live together, peacefully. Heh, must? I hope we do, I hope we will.

((o_O This is what happens after a "learning session" for exams...))

Forgive me if I am wrong, but are you suggesting there is a determinant and predestined outcome for our existence that we do not influence? If so, then I would have to disagree. An underlying, perpetual characteristic of existence is that from one cause there is an undetermined amount of outcomes, or effects. We are governed by reaction, and any consequences that stem from the initial action were conceived from it.

From this we gain free will, the ability to act and react in any manner that we see fit. There are those that would claim we are restricted by the bounds of perception, force, and/or intelligence. They would say it is these factors that proves we do not have free will, choice. But the inability to inact free will, or what restricts it, does not disprove it.

From this, we gain purpose. We can choose to our hearts delight the goals and beliefs, what paths are constructed from them, and the methods as to how we follow down those paths. We, humans, are confined to the perceptive notion that we can only react to what means we can create and perceive. We are at a loss to see the initial cause of existence, and so the ending result of it. Our existence is the perpetual effect of whatever the cause of existence is, and should be nothing more.

Can we influence the effect of existence? Certainly, and in diminitive ways with every action we commit. Can we forsee the ending result? This takes me back to predestination, the answer being no.

Hmmm...talk about being off topic. Despite where my mind has strayed from the topic, anyone and everyone fill free to respond.

(( Heh, I knew my phil. classes would come in handy ))

Acquinas wrote:

Haigen wrote:

We don't care about the status quo, the meaningless ego-battle between man and machine. We seek only one thing...bliss.

Meaningless ego battle? Perhaps you fail to recognize the level of atrocity when an entire race is enslaved and forced into a prefabricated existence. Maybe you're comforted by that fact, but above all it is not a battle of pride or any lesser vice to which you would suggest. In spite of the disagreement with your statement, thank you for a legitimate response.

Quite true, the whole race of Machines was enslaved and forced into a fabricated life of workshops, factories and various other means of servitude.

So it seems we are all guilty parties. It was a mistake to give machines consciousness, as it engendered the recognition of the crime of highest caliber. By granting the machines the ability of free will (or the means to develope it, which is fascinating in and of itself) humans bound themselves to commit the crime of enslavement.

A machine's original purpose - a tool. A means to facilitate human living without the output of labor. Yet tools cannot contain the rationale to operate completely independently. Thus, to give machines sentience and abstract thought made them independent beings, a way to elevate the ease of their purpose. And so humans were responsible for their own downfall when they failed to recognized the ascension of their once ignorant tools.

Yet still, the machines have no right to continue their institutionalization of man kind. Some would say it is retribution, or a desperate means for survival. It does not make it right, no matter the actions and crimes of humanity beforehand. Two wrongs do not make a right, as Gamis has said.

 Haigen, I ment not to impose upon your belief; I was simply stating a contrasting point to the belief. Yes, I have made up my mind, but I am not oblivious to the viewpoint of others. A smart man, even in ignorance, will seek to enlightenment beyond the wisdom he has obtained - Meaning, I will listen to others and learn from it.

Houston, Texas.

 Flat, no trees, coast plain with lots of rice fields, pine forests to the north. Good city, crappy climate

We don't care about the status quo, the meaningless ego-battle between man and machine. We seek only one thing...bliss.

Havocide is making a comparison of the Cypherites and E Pluribus Neo because both are considered terrorists by certain individuals. To reiterate, he's simply saying that it is apparent the cypherites have demonstrated terrorist acts, whereas E Pluribus Neo has not.

Back to the topic, could someone elaborate more on the Cypherites, especially the notion of those that do not want to be reinserted into the matrix. My questions are - What is your purpose if not to be reinserted? At what extremes will you inact to fulfill that purpose? What are your interpretations of the other organizations in relation to your purpose?

It's a really cool concept to consider, but the overall effort to implement the change would be overbearing to the devs. It would be really cool to see operatives sport some wicked weapons, if possible I would love to see this come into effect.

Personally, I would like to see players commended on their interaction with the storyline and server. Players should be rewarded by merit, not on the "Good ole boys" system. I see before the mention of very influential characters (ex. Cloudwolf) that have been key figures in important issues and events on the servers. Their commitment to the game as far as interaction enriches the experience of the game, so they should be given the ability to be rewarded. This could be missions restricted to those that have obtained a prestigious presence in their server.These missions could be very in depth, very interactive, and give the ability to increase levels above 50. I for one would love just to see my character the same level as certain key NPCs, but only because I would want to be as influential to MXO as they are.

 I really don't like the idea PCs in missions, because it objectifies the character, and lead to strange circumstances with regards to RP. It could also deviate from the character's concept to begin with.

I myself enjoyed the congregation, but I am concerned with the actions and words of a few of our brothers. At first our conversation was becoming productive, but with the intrusion of Defectless we saw the clash of differing personalities and beliefs. Conflict happens, as does emotion, and I only hope we can learn from that experience and better ourselves in the future.

This can start with Temperance, as Jevex said, and moderation as I did. We have to be humble and virtuous, not uncompromising and malicious.

Wow, great screenshots. The scene looked amazing, I hoped some good RPing was had from this, heh.

Interesting...Perhaps you can contact me concerning the topics of your meeting with Harkee, Interiac. Whenever your operator can hunt me down, I'll be waiting for your call.

Reeverb wrote:

Is that you're answer to everything?

No, but it is a good *CENSORED* reason to ignore your foolishness.


May Neo bless your soul.

Drunken Boxing!  Seriously, Neo learned it in "The Matrix"

I just like the name. 

Sorry to double post-

Although Neo learned Drunken Boxing I never saw him use any of the stances in the movies. I've seen Kung fu all over, I took Northern Shaolin longfist I couldn't count how many times I saw Trinity, Neo, and Morpheus implement them in the movies, but never drunken boxing. I wish Icould see an operative use it, that would be a really amazing sight.

• Kali
• Escrima
• Pa Kua
• Wing Chun

Just to name a few...

Im sure this discussion has arisen before in the forums, but I would like start the topic again.

What martial art styles would you like to see within MxO? Not to incite hope these styles would be implemented, this is just a friendly discussion of what you would like to see.

Myself, I would love to see Wu Shu, or the forms that are incorporated with the term. Juijitsu would be nice, as well as Capoeira. Muay tai also for variation, and finally Kuk Sool Won and Hapkido.

 Your thoughts?

20136098 wrote:

Reeverb, looks like we are going to have to lock this one now

But dont worry, its Caturday, so its legal!  YAY!

Sorry, it had to be done.


On Topic: Yes, just ignore them.  They probably just switched for a change of pace.  Now they can PVP against merv factions and give zion a PVP boost, if only temporary.  Probably a tactical decision, not a storyline one. 

/tell Acquinas in game, I'd like you to elaborate on what you need.

Response to Cap0ne(cuz i forgot to put in quotes):

most people who have read the manual thoroughly (like reeeally thoroughly) have seen the bio on the blackwoods stating that they broke out of a Mero construct called "Blackwood". The theory that new players tend to have is that this may be where morpheus is. Of course, if you check out cinematic 1.3, the answer is quite obviously no.

Its sorta like how, when people start out, they think that data miner is cool.

Message Edited by Aule5 on 04-17-2006 11:32 AM

Data mining is cool? Huh...interesting.

" I dun wanna b slapd!"

Hoping to RP with the faction sometime.

Thanks for the incite. What you say is true, the only I will truly learn anything is by learning it myself. It's more rewarding that way as well. And trust me, I will be having fun.

I agree with Jevex, we should focus on the fruitation of our ideals before the beliefs of others interpose our actions.

These actions, if held to be correct, are the efforts of those that wish to undermine the stability of the truce. Long have I debated the intent of the Cypherites, and I commend them on their integration of free will. They are discomforted with the truth, tired of the ideals, and this wariness should be stamped out with their reinstitution into The Matrix.

However, their supposed antics and insipid atrocities impedes the freewill and lives of others. Those that mean harm to Zion and to humanity are enemies to humanity solely. It is these grotesque actions of the Cypherites, forcing their ideals upon others, that promotes death, promotes ignorance, and above all promotes slavery. I for one will never bask in the blissful ignorance that is The Matrix and to be forced to is a crime against me that is of the upmost degree.

I implore the Cypherites that read this message quell their bloodshed. If you wish to leave the real, do so but do so in peace. To force man against his ideals means only to incite his fury.

Trial version as in current?

Contact Acquinas whenever you see fit.

Above all things I am an RPer. Although I'm new to the game, I'm experienced. Give Acquinas a tell anytime.