Hm, second on the list. I'm touched!

RemagDiv wrote:

Sneaker wrote:

Aquilae wrote:

Sneaker wrote:

I think, due to leaks and such, everyone knew that I was Serenity.

http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=12200003724

and

Biography: A listener of Pearl Jam, and a lover of Firefly.

Hahaha! I figured I was safe, since there's a lot of closet Browncoats out there!

Your location under Serenity also said Canada.  

Fine! Plenty of closet browncoats in Canada!

Pylat wrote:

Don't get all up in arms, the first exploit I showed was fixed about 3 days after I reported it, want me to find the post of me initially reporting it to the community.

The running sneak exploit I use is unreliable to reproduce (At least the method I use is) at best and I have never PvP'd with MKT/Assassin as my main build with any of my characters.

Nah, I don't think anyone's pointing fingers at you just because you knew how to do it.

Frankly, it'd be impossible to get away with - the second someone stumbled across you standing in Sneak while PvPing would mean an instant screenshot and a banning!

Aquilae wrote:

Sneaker wrote:

I think, due to leaks and such, everyone knew that I was Serenity.

http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/..._id=12200003724

and

Biography: A listener of Pearl Jam, and a lover of Firefly.

Hahaha! I figured I was safe, since there's a lot of closet Browncoats out there!

Mave wrote:

Pill macros were a totally different macro silly.

Just as silly as running a Sniper/Medic loadout and complaining about crappy damage. Oops!

Eh? When did I complain about damage output of combat medic?

Oh Mave. Even after all this time, you still don't have a clue why I ran that build. Never did I ever suggest that damage output should be increased - I knew it was low. High damage was never the point of it, however constant staggered plus Three Round Bursts more than made up for it.

For the record, I could take most OL builds out with combat medic, since I rolled so high. Good lord I must've racked up a couple thousand CQs with that build of mine. But it was always IL builds that gave me trouble, which is why I usually ran it during group PvP. Group Heals, Combat Rez, repeated Staggered/TRB, and near-gauranteed roots FTW. In interlock, however, I could stall someone due to the high rolls, but killing them was unlikely without outside assistance.

Course, I think it was pretty silly of you to run around as MKT all the time, and pretend like you were teh hotness of the PvP arena.

Mave wrote:

Oh yeah I apparently has macros running that would cause other players to lag while not affecting my performance at all.

I am a true MxO Haxor.

Your pill macros caused people to lag? Oops!

Seriously though (or, at least, less subtle jabbing?), the problems plaguing MxO's PvP was balance. Always has been, and always will be up until the end. The timers for certain abilities were just completely out of whack with regards to their effects, especially for Hackers and MKT. I'll put up a list if neccessary, but really, it's a downer knowing that they'll never be fixed.

Those abilities were the real exploit in this game. Minor tweaking would have made a huge difference.

I think, due to leaks and such, everyone knew that I was Serenity.

Made some friends. Made some enemies. All in all, I had a good time helping out.

In the beginnings of LESIG after we had liaisons for awhile, forum moderators (other players) were still allowed inside the LESIG forum. This resulted in several leaks. One horrible moderator, Sneaker, started a mini-flamewar in the LESIG forum because he thought some liaisons were RPing "too hard" against his faction, The Collective. After I put him in his place, he tried to "moderate" me and after the discovery of more leaks, moderators were no longer allowed to view the LESIG forum.

Really? That's what you remember? Foxxdie, you always were a little behind the times, and you always took things a little too personal.

Though this was quite a few years ago, what I remember is being sick of people bragging about their LESIG status, and not being able to keep their mouths shut about it. None of this had anything to do with The Collective, and everything to do with acting like they gave a crap about the storyline and future of MxO. And hey, look where we are now! Interesting, that.

But I don't really need to defend myself - your story already reeks of BS. What exactly does "RPing "too hard" against my faction" even mean? And really, you put me in my place? How? The problem here is that you believe the world revolves around you. As I recall, you weren't a source of any of the leaks, yet somehow you thought it was all about you.

In fact, the only truth to your story is that I indeed started a flamewar (which wasn't particularly mini, I might add), and it indeed resulted in moderators no longer being able to view the LESIG forum.  And I don't regret a single word - I was so sick of leak after leak after leak, as I'm sure many other people were.

eTOXIC wrote:

Wed Apr 02 20:27:41 2008 [Area] Phoebeus: Being flagged and attacking a player that is flagged are two completely different actions

lolz... /pvp is the first shot, NT's is the second. =p

That's what I got from that chat log, anywho.

Yep, me too.

eToxic wrote:
we have meetings on vector all the time everyones flagged and fights dont break out

why should it be diff on reccy?? 
Different mechanics, different rules.

If I was at that meeting and saw you red, I would've shot at you too. On Recursion, that's akin to to pulling your weapon out of its holster: a hostile act.

Roukan wrote:
You're goading Cap0ne into furthur degeneration and possible flames
No, I have not. I've even apologized for the possibility of being taken as such, as I understand that questioning someone's opinion can be treacherous waters.

I have voiced my opinion in a calm, composed, and respectful manner. If doing that is considered goading, then these forums should be shut down entirely.

Roukan wrote:
Just because Cap0ne has special items doesn't mean his opinion isn't valid
Actually, it does, in the event that he's voicing that those very same specials items don't matter.

Of course, as I said previously, he could gain credibility in his opinion by deleting said special items, considering he's downplaying their value so much. In which case, I'd accept his stance as I did Puck's.

But, alas, talk is cheap.

Roukan wrote:
I have special items not everyone has (less now) in a manner, yet my opinion counts correct?
And I have several items myself - the difference is that he has both of arguably the most coveted special items in the game. The ones everyone desires, and that neither you nor I have (as far as I know) - that's a huge leap from hyperjump beta, mobius code, or the beta clothes.

Again, it's kind've like a rich guy saying "Money isn't everything!" to the hobo begging for a quarter.

I'd appreciate it if you calmed down, Cap0ne. I don't want this thread to become locked, because I for one would like to hear more opinions on this subject

You've made your opinion very clear - that special items mean nothing. I understand that, but I am saying that your opinion, in my opinion, doesn't hold any weight, due to the fact that you already have the items people desire. Therefore, it's easy for you to say that they mean nothing.

If you consider me a troll because I consider your opinion invalid due to clearly explained reasons, that's fine.

Don't be overly insensitive, Cap. You can't jump on some folks for wanting items and/or threatening to quit, and then proclaim that I'm a troll when I state why your opinion in this situation is biased and invalid.

You don't agree? Cool, I understand. But I've got a rather solid point, in my humble opinion.

Darminian wrote:
And sneaker as much as i see the point your trying to make, you can't bust his balls cause he got lucky
My intent was not to "bust his balls", and I apologize if that's how it was viewed.

I'm saying that I cannot accept an argument of "It means nothing" from someone who has everything.

I do believe it's a reasonable stance, is it not?

MrPuck wrote:
Meh, then let me say it.

YOUR ITEMS DONT MAKE YOU WHO YOU ARE.

Ask Cap how many times Ive asked him for that mask. None, not once ever. never hit up Con for it either.

YOUR ITEMS DONT MAKE YOU WHO YOU ARE.

And from you, someone who (as far as I know) doesn't have any special items, I can accept that as a valid response

But not from someone who is part of the have's, as opposed to the have-not's. It's kind've like a rich guy saying "Money isn't everything!" to the hobo begging for a quarter.

Of course, if Cap0ne wishes to have a valid point, all he has to do is delete those special items. They don't make him who he is, right?

Cap0ne wrote:
Your items don't make you who you are.
You have both of the most special items in the game. What you just said, coming from you, is just... frustrating.

Sneak's list:

God.
Richard Nixon.

Sneaker wrote:

I'm sure you'd be able to find the PC Gamer issue on ebay, or something. Surely, someone has to have it out there.

It's pretty hideous, though - I deleted mine off of my main.

Thought about that, even if you do get it you can't get the coat now.

CS refuses to make the trade, so about the only thing you could do is try Rarebit or Virrago.

Ahh, I see. Didn't know the codes weren't valid anymore.

Well, if they ever become tradeable, I'm certainly willing to trade mine. All I'll ask for is your first-born child -nothing more!

I'm sure you'd be able to find the PC Gamer issue on ebay, or something. Surely, someone has to have it out there.

It's pretty hideous, though - I deleted mine off of my main.

So much drama comes out of unique items, myself included.

What was it I heard suggested back in the Smith Virus CQ discussion? Go back to org rewards?

I second that. Nuts to these special items.

There was only one Oracle, and that was Gloria Foster.

*Editted for Rarebit*

You got it, boss.

Little different when someone on the team that got the CQ gets the reward.

But, y'know, thanks for flamin'

Combat Rez.

That is, Team Patcher and Sniper.

Most fun build on the planet if you've got a team to support, and a live event happening.

I have Rez'ed people out of some of the hairiest situations MxO has to offer

After my latest experience, I feel I should add my 2 cents to this.

In a game that so thoroughly encourages faction-based and team-based cooperation, the rewards for live events are sorely contradictory. They are entirely based on the actions of one, not a group.

I don't know if it's ever possible to reward everyone who works hard and puts forth their full participation during an event, but it's high time we started trying. Because this lone-wolf based reward is... frustrating.

Surely, something can be set up to record Most Damage, and not just killing blow. Don't reward based on luck - that just frustrates everyone except the one person who just happened to fire at the perfect time.

Please, devs. It would do wonders for the events - no one could ever argue against the person or group that did the most damage deserving to be rewarded.

Mave, that's why I said this:

"And I get that he's probably not going to reward my team this time, but for the future. Please!"

I get that folks would be in an uproar if the rules changed just because I made a stink about it. I understand that. But I am saying, that for future events, we really need something better.

I mean, we have a whole system of encouraging players to form factions, and group up into team-based combat, yet our live event rewards are lone-wolf? How does that make sense?

Well shoot, shows what I know. I retract my TC-rewards comment - but not my point about most damage.

Because yeah, I feel like crap about working my butt off only to have some kid run in any take my team's glory. We perma-rooted you, and kept you in one place so some other guy could get the rewards? Ouch... that really sucks. Talk about getting shafted.

And no, Cap, you still have no leg to stand on towards TC favouritism. Because if your comic reminds us of one thing, it's that you have lots of event rewards. So please, I'd greatly appreciate it if you didn't troll about TC favouritism again.

Sneaker wrote:

And for the record, I don't think anyone in TC has won a special item.

Not true.

Xboxster has a System FM-1500.

Really? I didn't know that.

So, out of a faction of 30, and a major presence in every Machinist live event, we have 1 event item.

Wow. I feel satiated. *sigh*

NightTrace wrote:
Seriously, yes it sucks. Yes most damage makes more sense, but the system doesn't keep track of damage well so Rarebit would have to pull system chat and manually add up the damage to figure it out. It also doesn't keep track of CQ's being rewarded on his end, just client side [except for your total count which is on the system].
There ya go. It sucks.

And I get that he's probably not going to reward my team this time, but for the future. Please! This isn't the first time my team has been shafted because we didn't get that magical killing blow.

Surely, there's a way to set it up so that the server can tell you who was issued a CQ for the kill.

Cap0ne wrote:
..ok? Aaaand as far as I'm concerned, they're still bragging rights. All rewards are, but NT said "Kill = Reward, CQ = Bragging Rights" but they're both the same thing.
[..]
Wow, Sneaker. Please stop spazzing just because your faction didn't win the event. Thanks.
Of course. And why can't I have bragging rights too? I'm not asking to get something for nothing, here. I did a lot of work tonight. Who's team do you think perma-rooted Rare?

And for the record, I don't think anyone in TC has won a special item. Ever. And yet, some folks have two, and some folks get their names in missions... and still manage to complain about TC favouritism.

Just makes a fellah bitter some days.

Sneaker wrote:

Ah come on Rare, no harm in giving out more than one perpetual flame virus, is there?

I'm trustworthy, in terms of my lack of photoshop skills ">

Stop.


Also as far as I'm concerned, flame virus is also just bragging rights.

We all know that standard just isn't fun. Most damage makes way more sense, since "last shot" just rewards the bugger who just happens to throw the killing blow. It's luck, and nothing but!

We worked hard to track Smith all throughout Downtown, and keep our team's guns constantly on him. And kept him rooted so we could help kill him. Why shouldn't we be rewarded for our hard work?

Ah come on Rare, no harm in giving out more than one perpetual flame virus, is there?

I'm trustworthy, in terms of my lack of photoshop skills

Smith having a grand old time, and suddenly MEGA ROOT on him from like four unexpected directions at once. 8o And then he dies in a fire under a bridge.

*Whistles* Yeah, that would be partly my doing.

Hey Rare, how about a little lovin' for the team that got the CQ?

ThePigeonKing wrote
Wow guys, way to fail. I've requested for this thread to be locked because you guys can't take Rarebit's advice to cool down.
Guys, plural?

I know when to stop. I told him I'd ignore him until he cooled down, and that's what I'm doing.

The servers are all located in the same place, last I heard - switching wont change your performance.

What sort of lag is it? Is it choppy gameplay, or is it latency-related lag (ie: the bar at the bottom right is in the red, and you see players rubber-banding often)?

In the first event, it's a graphics issue (And with your 9250, this is probably your issue). MxO can be a very demanding game if you put it on max settings. Try disabling some options in the Video panel, and see what happens. It took me quite a while until I settled on the most playable settings, and I'm on an x800 GTO - head over heals above your 9250 (no offense intended )

In the second event, it's a network connection. Are you downloading anything while playing, especially a torrent? This will severely effect your network performance, and will often cause disconnections. Though, since I believe you have graphics lag, I won't flesh this one out further.

Let me know if you need any more help or clarification.

Pylat wrote:
Sneaker has not so skillfully sidestepped my entire post, so I see no need to continue the debate if that's all he will do.
Did you not see the post from Rarebit asking us to stop?

Until you can post a response without flaming and resorting to name-calling, I will be ignoring you - I've been through far too many arguments to respond to someone when they begin screaming and baiting me.

If you wish, feel free to lay out your points in a respectable manner, and I'll be glad to post a response.

But in the meantime, cool it. Take a breather. Go have a coke. I'll still be here tomorrow.

GypsyJuggler wrote:
Thanks.  It's not conclusive, but it's more than we knew for sure before. 
Sneaker, do you think it's fair to say neither side was spot-on in this case?
I know you're handing me the olive branch, but I still have to say that in this instance, I was correct.

It's certainly not my intent to insult you - I didn't say ignorance as in "Oh, he's an idiot!" by any means, I meant that my experience taught me contrary to what you were saying.

It's only one point, Gypsy. You have other perfectly valid points, so fear not.

Rarebit wrote:
MA's have been in need a bit of a boost, as far as I can see.
I have to disagree entirely with that statement.

The limitations imposed on MA's are via their dependency on Interlock - that is, only one target at a time. But within that realm they dominate completely. And that's their job. Yet, I don't see that changing in that event that we remove TSing - MA's will still dominate interlock, as they never rolled the impossible, they simply combined favourable rolls for two seperate instances.

But, underpowered? How so? They dominate their niche, with or without TSing.



Pylat, you're sidestepping my point, so I'll rephrase it.

You're arguing for the inclusion of an exploit into the game. It's up to you to convince me that the negative aspects of that exploit are not enough to prevent said inclusion.

It's certainly not my job to downplay the positive aspects - obviously there's a large advantage to be had, otherwise folks wouldn't be using them.

Pylat wrote:
Actually, you just tried to outlaw the use of certain words
I did... what?

"If using phrases such as "even less", "nothing but", "even more", and sweeping generalizations about CR2 are the only way to state your case, then you've already lost this particular debate."

You were exaggerating. I called you on it. It would be the end of story, but you're still resorting to exaggeration to state your case (case in point: "SNEAKER IS OUTLAWING TEH ENGLISH LANGUAGE!"

Oh yes, two can play at that exaggeration game.

Moving on.

Pylat wrote:
After I fleshed them out, you asked me to flesh them out... again.
Oh? Where was this. Link please, because I'm only seeing posts of me reminding you that you're the guilty party when it comes to backing up your statements.

Moving on.

Pylat wrote:
Ok, let me simplify things for you, cause you really are struggling to keep up
Cool your jets. Your pissing contest is getting old.

Pylat wrote:
You asked me to explain why IL classes will be nerfed agaisnt a zerg. I explained why, you said you disagree, therefore:
Explain to me how an IL class will perform just as effectively against a zerg if they can't TS.
You asked me to explain why removing TS will be an overall benefit for the zerg. I explained, you said you disagree, therefore:
Explain to me how removing TS will NOT be an overall benefit for the zerg.
You asked me to explain why removing one of the rare things in the game that actually rewards skill and practice will not shift combat more towards blind luck, I explained, you said you disagree, therefore:
Explain to me how removing TS will NOT just make combat even more about luck and less about practice.
What the heck are you talking about?  Do you actually read my posts?

"I still disagree. Because, in the end, it's not about how hard it is, it's about the fact that they benefit a specific class, namely MA's, far more than any other."

Pay very close attention to the last sentence: it's about the fact that TSing benefits a specific class, namely MA's, far more than any other. I don't recall specifically agreeing or disagreeing with any of those above points, aside from stating counter-points to them (ie: OL builds getting trapped in IL easier with TS, thus benefiting the zerg)

That's what I care about, and that's the very reason that TS should not be permitted to continue. That point trumps every other point you've made, and as yet, you've done nothing but sweep it under the rug.

Thus, in order to refute that point, you have to a) convince me that OL builds are so rare that they don't matter, or b) convince me that TS benefits OL builds just as much as IL builds.

Pylat wrote:
That's pathetic, it really is.
You're hanging your hat on the stance that exploiting is hard. I would call that pathetic.

I don't give a rats arse how hard it is. The fact is, my point trumps your point for a simple reason: TSing benefits one select group of people over another.

This is simple logic here. Either refute that, or you're done in this argument.

Until you address that point with something concrete, we're done here.
Convince me that an exploit should stay in the game when it benefits interlock builds far more than others, regardless of the difficulty it adds to the game.

Seriously. I'll listen.

Pylat wrote:
No you just ignored large sections of my posts and then claimed I didn't back my statements.
[...]
I've elaborated this point about 10 times now, but I guess I will do it ONE MORE TIME.
I just quoted three bloody things of yours where you didn't back anything up. You just asked the questions, and left it at that. As if they somehow proved your point for you.

That was in this post, by the way: http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/...594#36300430091 , right after I called you out on overexaggeration.

I wish you'd read my posts, Pylat, because then you'd notice I said:

"It's only after I called you out on it did you actually start fleshing them out. Which is good, though I don't enjoy having to go through the extra effort."

Thus, fleshing them out again was unneccassary. Read my posts before posting a block of text, please.

Pylat wrote:
Really, how about YOU back that statement huh?
Excuse me?

Read my post before responding, please.

"As I said before, OL builds can only benefit defensively, that is, swapping between block tactics and power/speed/grab while a special is launching. This is certainly not comprable to the MA TS, because there is no combination of tactics being calculated. OL builds cannot do more damage with more accuracy, we can only get hit less - something every class can do outside of interlock anyways."

Don't ever call me a hypocrit without the proof to back it up. Otherwise you end up looking stupid. Difference here is I've always backed up my points - you only started when I badgered you about it in the first place.

Pylat wrote:
You'll have to repeat that last line, it doesn't make sense.
Of course it does, to someone with a basic grasp of English.

GypsyJuggler was unaware that the system calculates OL numbers at the same time. I would call that ignorance. Thus, his argument about all classes benefitting equally has been nulled.

Got it? Or would you like me to hold your hand and walk you through all that again? I know, I know, English is hard!

Your other points I've ignored because I'm not hanging my hat on the difficulties of tactics switching. I am hanging my hat on the fact that TS benefits interlock classes, namely high-damaging MA's, far more than any other.

Your only retort to that is to try to sweep OL builds under the rug. Which means, you lose.

QED.

SolidRevolver wrote:
Actually, I did a DPE on a NPC while out of IL, it did the animation of being hit.... but it still missed.  This says to me it is all calculated at the same time out of IL.
I remember that it *used* to, but I haven't seen that happen in a long time.

How sure are you that it wasn't, say, the freefire animation showing instead of the special? Do you recall?

But, I suppose that's besides the point. Myself, Zudrag, Solid, and Bayamos have seen clear indications that OL calculations are done at the same time. This is very important if we're discussing keeping TS around.

This means that only IL builds benefit from a combination of tactics. As I said before, OL builds can only benefit defensively, that is, swapping between block tactics and power/speed/grab while a special is launching. This is certainly not comprable to the MA TS, because there is no combination of tactics being calculated. OL builds cannot do more damage with more accuracy, we can only get hit less - something every class can do outside of interlock anyways.

Thus, the only other argument I've read was from Pylat, who stated the following:

"There are a grand total of about 2 OoIL classes in the whole game. Snipers and Hackers. And even then a great deal of hackers like to IL people. I would venture a guess and say there are A LOT more IL builds running around in normal PvP than OoIL ones."

This is known as a dismissive argument: he knows that he's beat, thus he conjurs a way to simply make that retort "disappear!"

Fact is, there are plenty of OL builds, especially when fighting a Zerg, and you will not dismiss them simply so you can run with your argument.

On a personal note, there's a reason that I call interlock a "prison cell". If you're fighting the Zerg in interlock, well, I sure hope you're fighting some idiots who don't know how to root, and don't run around as anything besides MA's.