Search Results: 117 messages were found

No... It's a bad thing. If you even too basic economics you'd know that the value of an item is determined by supply and demand. As supply out paces demand, the value falls. In the Matrix, all crafted items can be decompiled and learned. The schematic proliferates quickly through out the population as just about everyone has a coder loadout. So the supply of an item quickly becomes infinite and its value falls to zero. It cost information to code and compile an item then post it on the MP. Way things are, you might as well just save yourself the time and toss that information into the nearest campfire. The MP is a waste of time for anything except selling consumables that require red frags to make. Any else will rot there and auto-delete.

Well, excuse the hell outta me if I'm not willing to spend my hard earned information to spoon feed you schematics for you code base. Get out there and loot and decompile the items yourself.

Yes. I believe the nightclubs that don't have contacts inside them are pretty much all over the Richland district. From what I remember off the top of my head, the other district nightclubs do have contacts inside, especially the very nice ones in Downtown. In those, the contacts have an office style room inside the nightclub.

What do you guys thing about having the contact NPC inside each of these clubs give players a VIP access key that lets them use the club HL as a reward for completing the contact's last mission? Just thinking that would give players an insentive to actually do the contact's mission content.

Because you can decompile crafted items and learn the schematics, they proliferate to the point they are worthless and there's no point putting them on the MP. They just rot there and eventually get garbage collected by the system. Only consumables are worth bothering to post on MP and then only if they require a red frag to make.

Obviously not a phone booth but would be nice for people to be able to hardline into night clubs. The hardline could be just an office style phone sitting on a desk or an indoor style wall mounted payphone. Alot of real night clubs have those. People are going to hang out and socialize near hardlines and right now that is out on the street. That's hardly true to the movies. It would also be nice if the terminal for signal boosters were inside such night clubs. The designers busted their butts designing the best looking night clubs and they all are sitting vacant. This would change that. At most, we are only talking about one additional hardline in any one block in a district.

Perhaps just to make it something to make it achievement based, these hardlines would have to be hacked like access nodes and keys obtained by doing critical missions for contacts in those clubs. Call them VIP passes or something.

Hope you guys plan to add more doorways to white hallway areas cause these two Zion door ways lead to two really trashy looking Zion bases. Hopefully new areas won't look like the aftermath of Animal House.

DelstarDotstar wrote:

Ok, as a very long time coder who freely gives away how I do certain things
and give clues to people on how to work as a coder, I have never considered
that someone buying one of my items and decompiling it stealing. It really
seems that you want to corner the market on some certain things and charge
extreme prices for them and make it some someone else can't come in under
and sell for less. I and many others that I know like to have the ability to find
things and then pass them around. Can you tell me that your entire recipes
are from loot?
The "No decompile" flag seeting is another way, but that would need to be
shown in the marketplace listing because I for one would not even bother
to buy a piece of clothing that I can't decompile.
Sorry, but I think that this is a bad idea and even the choice of having a
"No Decompile" flag that you can set while coding is a bad idea. I think very few
would buy those items and then we would have a Marketplace that was more
flooded with items that people will not buy.

A long time coder and a long time poor business man from the looks of it. In the real world, the essence of financial power is secrecy. With your attitude, you'd be hanging your real world "Out of Business" sign in very short order. Cornering the market were possible is standard business practises but won't be possible to maintain in MxO. After all, there's nothing stopping people from going out and looting the same item, decompiling it, and going into competition with you. But at least, they got off their lazy arse and went and did the same amount of work to get the schematic.

Can I tell you if my entire recipes are from loot? Answer is yes. I'm a solo player and I don't join crews, factions, etc. I'm not buying items off the Marketplace and decompiling them. I'm not receiving items from other people much less decompiling them. I fly under my own steam, loot my own stuff, and when I wear crafted, its stuff I make myself. I'll have no problem at all in a much more restrictive system of decompiling.

DelstarDotstar wrote:

Let's see for real life there is a style of clothing that people like and
in a little while Target, Walmart, and Old Navy all make a version of
it for resale for cheaper. Then a bit later the some other country,
that can make it cheaper, starts making it and you see it on the
street vendors. The stores with the higher price on the item are then
forced to put it on sale or lower their price.
When you put a price that is too high on something then you should
not expect to have a monopoly on that item. If someone then sells it
cheaper then you need to change your price because now the demand
is for the lower priced version. I see no problem at all in only having a
few chances to sell an item and then having to adjust the price, it happens
all the time in the real world. So it looks like the Matrix in this case is
following real life.

What your describing in the Real World is called piracy and its illegal. Target, Walmart, and Old Navy skirt the laws as close as they can without actually violating them. Other countries flat out break the law.

LikwidSmoke wrote:

DelstarDotstar wrote:
Ok, as a very long time coder who freely gives away how I do certain things
and give clues to people on how to work as a coder, I have never considered
that someone buying one of my items and decompiling it stealing. It really
seems that you want to corner the market on some certain things and charge
extreme prices for them and make it some someone else can't come in under
and sell for less. I and many others that I know like to have the ability to find
things and then pass them around. Can you tell me that your entire recipes
are from loot?
The "No decompile" flag seeting is another way, but that would need to be
shown in the marketplace listing because I for one would not even bother
to buy a piece of clothing that I can't decompile.
Sorry, but I think that this is a bad idea and even the choice of having a
"No Decompile" flag that you can set while coding is a bad idea. I think very few
would buy those items and then we would have a Marketplace that was more
flooded with items that people will not buy.

Coudln't have said it better , I decompile every thing i loot and buy, why because thats what the coder tree was for in game. I want to increase my code library for my faction then thats my business. It isn't stealing if i pay for an item on the marketplace and decompile it. THE only reason i buy off the marketplace is is to decompile stuff i dont have. The only time i sell on the marketplace is to get rid of the code charges in my library and put them really cheap? WHY because you can't make a serious income off the marketplace so i'll hand out stuff cheap to those who want to do the same.

Your ideas not completely far fetched, but your more off less going to ruin any chance the marketplace has for those who wish to make some extra $info off it, and wasting the DEV's time on fixing and adding more important / lucrative content to the game.

You contradicted yourself there saying, "you can't make a serious income off the marketplace" and then turning around and saying, "your more off less going to ruin any chance the marketplace has for those who wish to make some extra $info off it". Your first statement is factual. The second is pure fantasy. The market is already ruined and people aren't making any real info off it worth the effort. The only reason anyone makes any money off it at all is Red Frags which can't be decompiled or reproduced.

Ikkaku wrote:

ManicV wrote:
Digital Rights Management in the virtual world? I think.... yep... now I've seen everything.
If I pay for an item, that item becomes mine. I own it. At least, as far as ownership goes in a massive online game. I'm free to do with it what I want as long as I don't violate the game's TOS. I can resell it, trade it, or dare I say... decompile it. *DUN dun dunnnnnnnn*
If you go to the store and buy a toaster, does the manufacturer of the toaster then get to tell you how to use it? Nope. You can use it to toast your bread, you can stick a fork in it (not recommended), or you can destroy the toaster entirely. It's your toaster.
The seller gives up all rights to an item once the buyer pays the asking price.
Someone needs to jack out every now and then and have a look outside. Buying something DOES NOT give you the right to mass produce and sell it. Go back to Wikipedia and look up "Patent".

Your example has no relationship with the topic. Who said anything about telling you how to use your items? We are trying to create an effective means to earn $info. The best anyone can do is hope that they will sell more than one of an item before it is decompiled and resold at a lower price.

We are discussing another way to earn $info in MxO. The system is flawed.

Exactly! In the real world, we have Patents, Copyrights, and Trademark laws that protect producers from piracy. Some of you should try ripping DVD's and reselling copies in the real world. After all, that's equivalent to what your doing inside MxO by buying someone else's crafted item, decompiling it, and selling copies at cheaper prices. In the real world, your butt will land in jail fast not to mention getting sued. Just take a look at the current crackdown in the music industry on people using peer-to-peer networks to copy/share pirated music.

The lag in Philsen is so incredibly horrible that its impossible to move around in there. It even takes several minutes to use any of the options on a HL. The way its running tonight, you might as well mark it offline.

Give all the ladies "Mouse's Lady In Red" disguises. SMILEY

It's getting tiring setting all these auto ignores (crew, faction, mission, and etc. invites) every time I log in and since I cant set them until after I leave the loading area, I often get spammed with crew invites right as I materialize at the HL by people I don't know and have never even had a conversation. That's extremely annoying. These ignore settings need to persist across logins.

The objection I have to this is that they way players end up with a contested mission. Weither or not a mission is contested must be selectable by the player, not the uncontrolled way you wrote it up. People will get a bit ticked off having to abort a bunch of missions until they get an uncontested one. The mission panel needs a checkbox so the player can specify if being assigned a contestable mission is acceptable or not. Not providing this is just a sneaky way of slipping forced PvP into the game and the player base won't tolerate that.

GypsyJuggler wrote:

My feeling is that this idea, while interesting and not completely without value, goes quite against the idea of redpils having 'freedom of goods' in the digital world. In the movies, a redpill has anything he or she needs just waiting in a handy construct. None of it costs anything because it is, after all, just some 'lines of script'. The code for a simple item is simple in itself, there is nowhere to 'put' extra encryption code because the code defines the item and the item is limited. Could you imagine a coder putting encryption on a hundred dollar bill so that no one could copy it? Of course not. And even if you did, someone else could just whip up some code for a new counterfeit bill or perhaps download the code from an org archive/construct.
As you can see, I'm against this idea. But I'd like to offer a different suggestion. Perhaps coders could have the ability to 'degrade' items they create - to produce items that are already short-lived and unstable. This way, anything a coder made to pass on would (at the coders discretion) last only a small time before the buyer had to return to the coder for a new one. While not creating such a restrictive, elitist situation, this would add more value to the work a coder does.

The existance of Collector Rewards and Construct Boss Drops indicates that the DEV's have already headed away from your "Freedom of Goods" policy. While freedom of goods works for the movie, it doesn't work for MMORPGs.

Just some follow up notes on a few things:

A player who manages to hack a crafter's pattern should get a No Trade version of the schematic. This would prevent one player from hacking the schematic then turn around and making it open source by distributing it to the world. No, each and every player who wants the schematic would have to decrypt it for themselves. The only player that would have a tradable version of the schematic would be the original crafter who decompiled its source looted item.

As too, wiping and resetting the current item/schematic base, that would not be necessary. Player attrition will do the job eventually with far less pain. The DEV's could make the change, put it in, and just let time phase all the older objects out. Also, any new items introduced would be under the system. The DEV's could even start seeding the world with missions and loot tables to drop new rare, exclusive, and limited distribution items.

Ikkaku wrote:

We agree to adding another level of difficulty, but not to adding a visual / dexterity test. Such a thing would be nice, but we assume it would be impractical for the devs to implement given their current resources.

To ensure that a significant amount of time is required to crack the original crafter's encryption, the original crafter should be sure to only release the more valuable items with a suitable encryption level.

Software developers spend a considerable amount of time and money on copy protection, but they can only do so much. It seems there is always a way to get around their efforts.

There is problems with all of this...
Implementing any of our ideas would require either introducing new items, or purging the current marketplace along with the player code libraries. So unfortunately, this will never happen.

If this was a possibility, it shouldve been done with the introduction of cr2.0

No, not a visual/dexterity type puzzle. There's already plenty visual/dexterity type activities to do in the game just fighting, shooting, and nuking. The puzzle would need to be some sort of logic mini-game. Think of it as PvP using brains as weapons.

Ikkaku wrote:

ArdenStarmariner wrote:
Ikkaku,

That idea would create a use for encryption/decryption skills that currently have no use whatsoever. It would take some fleshing out. It would need to be a challenging task for both character and player skill.

We are in agreement. The process could involve crafting the item, then applying the encryption with the existing tool / ability.

The challenge would be to match the original crafters level of encryption / decryption. Leveling this ability should be expensive. The goal of anyone who desires to be a successful crafter should be to raise their encrytption / decryption level to a competitive level and then offer their exclusive items to the public knowing that their items will not be copied and redistributed so easily.

MxO would benefit from a system that allows rare items to remain rare. The moment someone shares a unique item with the population it is immediately spread throughout the Matrix uncontrollably. That defeats the purpose of having special items in the first place. If everyone has it, then the item is no longer special.

In an ideal situation, A good crafter will have spent somewhere around 30 million or more on their encryption / decryption level. The average player will not be able to simply buy, decompile and redistribute for some random price.

The current system is inadequate. Yes it functions, but it offers no benefit to the crafter.

Character skill alone may not be enough to prevent mass distribution of schematics throughout the population. Perhaps the encryption/decryption skill should enable some sort of pattern matching puzzle which the decrypting player must match to the pattern set by the original encrypter. It should be sufficiently complex that the decrypting player must take significant amount of game time to crack the encrypters pattern. Character skill only gives you access to see and attempt to use the pattern or puzzle panel via some sort of encrypting/decrypting tool.

Ikkaku,

That idea would create a use for encryption/decryption skills that currently have no use whatsoever. It would take some fleshing out. It would need to be a challenging task for both character and player skill.

I hear why you are saying Lady_Return but I don't agree that because that's the way things are, its the way things should be or continue to be. If all schematics are open source the way they are now, you can't exactly design any missions or other methods for players to obtain them through achievement. Because they are open source in the matrix, they are worthless and all the items produced from them are equally worthless. Right now, only Red Frags requirement makes any items have any value. As an example, the Health Pill 5.0 goes for about 3M for a stack of 20 on Recursion. What do you think it go for if it didn't require a Consumables Subroutine to craft? They would be worthless. Because Consumable Subroutines have to be looted, they have value and the items made from them have value. How many story lines have been designed around something that was in limited supply or only a single copy existed? There's been lots of them. How many story lines have been designed around something that's open source? I can't think of a single example. That would be like writing a story about picking up a rock off the ground. Giving crafters to ability to control the proliferation of the schematics they know would return value to most of the crafted items in the game.

Yeah, I don't think I'd spend 100M on a white hallway key if all the Zion areas look like the image that Erace posted.

Perhaps an easier solution would be to provide a check box on the Coding Tool Panel that lets the crafter set the No Decompile bit. Then if the item was crafted with the check box turned on, it would refuse decompile attempts just like a reward item from one of the collector NPC's. If the check box is uncheck when the item was crafted, then it would be decompilable like all crafted items currently are. That would let your friends give you schematics but also allow crafters to keep schematics away from competitors who buy and decompile their items, then undercut the selling prices on the Market.

Sorry, but it is stealing. A crafter who sells an item on the Market in most cases intends to sell you an item for your use. If you buy the item and use it, that's as the transaction was intended. If you decompile it, you payed for the item but you stole the schematic. As a crafter that worked my butt off to get a schematic but going out and adventuring to get it, I want distribution of that schematic to be under my active control. I don't want it being distributed involuntarily through selling actual items. If someone wants to give you a schematic, they should be able to get a copy of their schematic from code archive and hand it to you. But many crafters will sell schematics at a substantially higher price than the items that are made from it.

The real question is weither you should be allowed to expand your code library by earning schematics or by stealing them? If by stealing, then the work done by those who grow theirs by earning it is completely devalued.

Another side effect would be that used looted items would still have a value even if they had zero purity and condition left. Such used items could still be sold on the market as decompilable items.

Not really. You will just have to buy looted items off adventurers or go loot them yourself. Harder, yes because you can no longer steal schematics from the competition by buying and decompiling crafted items that they put up for sale on the Market. If they intended to sell you the schematic, they would have posted the schematic for sale on the Market.

Because it trivializes the effort of the original crafter to acquire a looted item, decompile it, and learn the schematic from it. Right now, schematics are worthless and anyone who sells a crafted item spoon feeds the schematic for the sold item to all of their competitors. It shouldn't be that easy for a schematic to proliferate.

People shouldn't be able to learn schematics from decompiling crafted items. It devalues the effort made by the people who loot, decompile and learn the schematic, then sell crafted items made from it if other people can just decompile what he/she crafts to also learn the schematic.

What exactly do these White Hallways do for me that makes them worth 100M? I'm guildless and don't really have an interesting in joining a crew. In fact, I have crew invites on auto ignore. So as an individual, what benefit does this give me? I don't think there's that many idiots around who will spend 100M on fluf, so this better do something worth the credits.

I've tried stacking Hyper Block, Hyper Dodge, Hyper Sense, and Hyper Deflect. What's weird is if I execute them more than once, they each say I've refreshed an already running program. However, when I look at my buff icons, I only have icons for 2 of them. For example, Hyper Dodge and Hyper Deflect will both show up in the list but Hyper Dodge and Hyper Block won't. Which is accurate? Are all the buffs actually running the way the text says they are by reporting that an already running buff is being refreshed or are they overwriting each other the way the icon list shows? SMILEY

Central Park South in Downtown is probably a very good choice. Especially since right as you exit the HL, you can turn about 45 degrees to the right and hyper jump to roof entrance at the 3rd floor of the building just east of the corner. Take walk around the passages to the elevator and go on up to one of DT's nice bars. SMILEY

When do we get the "Lady In Red" construct? :smileytongue:

Is this all the DEV's at SOE can do these days? Fluffy rewards in Planetside and now MxO?

I thought this might be a shirt that could be equipped under your normal clothing to add additionals stats. But no, its just for show. Worse, it takes up a valuable slot in my inventory.

I'm not impressed.

Thanks VitaminI, the jacket is giving me the boost I needed to get a few nodes that were a bit hard to tap at my level.

Well, it could be a TShirt that says "Tell your boobs to stop staring at my eyes!" SMILEY

I'm still trying to figure out where the Zion guy is at that can turn this reward disk into the enhanced stake, silver bullets, and holy water. A friggin waypoint would have been nice.

DelstarDotstar wrote:
Check this thread out
http://mxoboards.station.sony.com/matrix/board/message?board.id=marketplacerecursion&message.id=2113
I have both the male and female if anyone needs them

What is your in-game name?

Hmmm. So /autoignore is the command.
That's a good tip. Thanks to all the posters who replied with an
effort to actually be helpful.

And for the one that didn't...

/autoignore CooliceT *edited for flaming*

If you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Message Edited by ArdenStarmariner on 01-30-200608:35 AM

Message Edited by MOD_E on 01-30-2006 03:37 PM

I should start putting stacks of 20's on The Marketplace. I know my data archive is pretty close to being completely full of them. Anyone know the going rates for stacks of bits ones through eights?

Air, what do you have and how much do you want for it?

Weaselgrrl, I kinda need guy stuff. SMILEY