Archival Science Databanks
Communications intercept. Transmission detected Sat 25th of Oct 2008 at 12:05 AM by Cadsuane. Communique follows:
Eleutherophobia: Are we still expecting anyone?
Narimiya: the inquisition
Narimiya: but they are rarley exspected
Eleutherophobia: Hehe. Well, just to be safe, we'll give everyone just a few more minutes. Please, fix yourselves something to drink.
Narimiya: *Narimiya snaps his fingers at elu, a white wine spritzer barkeep.*
Eleutherophobia: Hmm...has anyone spoken with Procurator?
Mathalos: I believe he said he was not coming.
Mirmaker: Negative
Shinryu: I have not, no
Eleutherophobia: Is that so? Mathalos? Okay, thank you.
Eleutherophobia: Either way, I believe we should begin.
Perreguine: We're all ears.
Shinryu: No time like the present
Eleutherophobia: As Natasha has mentioned, I've at least a little bit of experience moderating these things, so if nobody is opposed, I'll keep the floor civil tonight.
Shinryu: Sounds good to me, Eleuth
Narimiya: iron fist in a velvet glove sister?
AnarchistAtHeart: I've no objection.
Mirmaker: *Mirmaker nods at Eleutherophobia.*
Eleutherophobia: (As a real-life aside, if I suddenly fall offline, thunder is literally shaking my windows right now.)
Eleutherophobia: Good, then.
Eleutherophobia: First off, let me thank you all for coming. I thnk that the [i]massive[/i] attendance tonight is evidence enough of the strength and dedication of the machinist cause.
Eleutherophobia: Before we get into what will no doubt be heated debate of some pressing issues, I'd like to allow each faction present to make any kind of statement they'd like regarding...well, anything.
Eleutherophobia: We'll start from my left: Sentience?
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
Mathalos: I wish to clear up any opinions that are being expressed towards us by other factions.
DC1O: -_^
SonOfThree: :V
Eleutherophobia: Fine, then. Mathalos, you have the floor.
Mathalos: What problems are there with us?
Ballak: If any.
Eleutherophobia: Please, can we stick to statements, and not questions for now?
Mathalos: I am tired of everytime something goes wrong, we're the one blamed.
Mathalos: If a Cypherite shows up, we obviously told them.
Mathalos: The accusations need to stop.
Mathalos: Members of Sentience do not tell Cypherites any information.
Mathalos: Nor have they ever.
Vinia: Is that the only accusation?
evalR: I don't know. Is it?
Vinia: You tell us, your complaining about them
Eleutherophobia: Please, we will debate this topic in a bit.
AnarchistAtHeart: How about your members harrasing ours constantly for thier former affiliations?
SonOfThree: This is a very important topic
SonOfThree: I think the meeting should be dedicated to it
Eleutherophobia: Is there anything more you would like to say, Mathalos?
Mathalos: I have received harassment from members of your faction for just saying hey.
Tenshi916: There seems to be a lot of unspoken resentment towards us, this is all we have been made knowledgeable of, I'm sure we can disuss it later in the meeting.
Mathalos: As if I am trying to be offensive, when I am not.
evalR: I think we can move along to the next group, Eleu.
GodTier: I think our message is clear.
Eleutherophobia: Thank you. Right, Somnolence, we will get ti cypherite groups alltogether after the machine groups.
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
Eleutherophobia: Does someone from the Tetragrammaton want to make a statement?
Darkhawk1: *Darkhawk1 gently pats Minnk.*
Beachhead: Pass.
Darkhawk1: *Darkhawk1 gently pats AnarchistAtHeart.*
Cadsuane: The Tetragrammaton is merely here to take part, as any upstanding Machinist faction.
Eleutherophobia: Right, SOCA?
Narimiya: how can one take part when they would stand aside?
Cadsuane: There will be plenty to say later, 'brother'.
Mirmaker: I have nothing to say at this moment.
Narimiya: then let us hope the ears of the many can hear the voices of the few
MysticTravi: SOCA has nothing to add at this moment
Eleutherophobia: Right, The Watchmen?
Shinryu: *nods* Thank you, Eleuth.
SonOfThree: *SonOfThree chuckles.*
Shinryu: I have little to add as most of our views are quite.. well known. I will say that we do still believe a strong Machinist organization is still a possibility
Shinryu: We have the potential to be even more than we were before.. but the journey will likely be a difficult one that will require the efforts of all of us
Eleutherophobia: Right, I will move on to the Cypherite groups, then. Somnolence, do you have a statement to make?
Dante21: Where does everyone stand with us?
Eleutherophobia: Statements for now, please.
Dante21: I don't have any.
Eleutherophobia: Right, Exploits?
Duffie: I am awesome, thank you.
SonOfThree: HERE HERE
Ballak: Well said.
MissLita: [Faction] Duffie: cyphs > mechs
MissLita: :O
Duffie: lol
Duffie: [Faction] MissLita: cyphs > mechs
Eleutherophobia: Okay, then. I apologize if some of this seems a bit...unnecessary, but I do want to keep this as fair as possible, and don't want anyone to feel as if their views have been overlooked.
SonOfThree: I believe you skipped the authority
Eleutherophobia: Ah, I'm sorry.
Narimiya: i have had a vision my brothers and sisters
Narimiya: i have seen what is to come
Tenshi916: *Tenshi916 facepalms.*
Narimiya: we will walk arm in arm apon the path
Narimiya: and my firneds the path is golden
Narimiya: no longer will we be cast out into the cold
Narimiya: the only way to get to where we need to go is together
Cadsuane: And Dorothy will slay the wicked witch?
Eleutherophobia: No appy polly logies then, hmm?
Narimiya: and i belive that time is comming
AnarchistAtHeart: Thank you Dr. King.
Narimiya: you keep acting like a bitch ill slap you like a bitch brother
Duffie: k
GodTier: That is... not constructive.
Ballak: Operative.
Eleutherophobia: Right, although it may take up more time than I'd like, I really feel that we need to address one issue before we get to anything else: The relationship between machines and cypherites in the coming weeks and months.
jl10899: bitch slapping +10 cool points
Eleutherophobia: I will keep my opinion of this mum for now, but would first like to have the Cypherites themselves make an appeal.
Eleutherophobia: We will once again begin with Somnolence.
Dante21: Can I ask now? Or do I still have to wait?
Eleutherophobia: Go ahead.
Dante21: Where do you all stand with us? Not Som, Just Cypherites.
Mirmaker: ...
AnarchistAtHeart: ...
SonOfThree: Im only cool with cypherites who are authorities on the movement.
Eleutherophobia: If you'd like to respond, please first /tell me, so that we can keep this from turning into a flood of text.
Ballak: What.
DC1O: -_^
Narimiya: there is onyl one true authority brother
Tesma: -_-
Perreguine: .....
RNAi: ...
RNAi: ...
RNAi: ....
RNAi: ...
Perreguine: *Perreguine rubs her temples.*
Eleutherophobia: Please, folks.
Mathalos: I believe that was a reasonable question.
Eleutherophobia: If you're not going to take this seriously, I'd ask you to leave.
Mathalos: Why the ...'s?
Mathalos: I believe everyone is forgetting that we made the Cypherites.
Shinryu: It should not be a surprise to anyone, but we stand firmly against the Cypherites. I can understand why the Machines continue use of them, but can not agree with it
Mirmaker: Aye Shin.
Mathalos: So we stand firmly against something we created?
Dante21: Heh.
AnarchistAtHeart: The further away the better. They made their choice and now want to be all sunshine and flowers with us again? I think not.
Shinryu: We did not create them, the Machines did
Dante21: You are machines.. Right?
Shinryu: No, we are not
Ballak: And we follow the Machines as Machinists.
GodTier: I can't just say I'm with all Cypherites. There are some Cyphs that I am a bit more tolerant towards, and some I would rather flat out ignore. It's not an org thing; It's a people thing.
Mathalos: The Cypherites follow most of the same goals as we do.
Tenshi916: I believe and always have believed that if our goals align, I see no problem working with a Cypherite.
Mirmaker: We signed a document showing our separation from the Cypherites. I still stand by my signiture
SonOfThree: Honestly you guys are talking like small children. You don't have a choice in the matter to be honest.
Mathalos: Why deny the extra help?
SonOfThree: Blue or no blue they're part of our org now
SonOfThree: end.
Shinryu: Some of us do not "follow" the Machines. Some of us work with them in hopes to achieve a future where both and machine can coexist and cooperate in peace
Narimiya: we walk but one path if you chose to sit by the way side that is yoru choice but the road goes on regardless
Mirmaker: I for one will not help the Cyphs. 'nuff said,
Tenshi916: Though they may have a record of malicious intent, sometimes that i what is needed, especially in a state of war, they have provided great assistance in the past, and I think ignoring it n the future would be ignorant.
Mathalos: Why do you refer to Agent Gray as a sir, then?
Mathalos: You refer to him as your superior.
Ballak: The only reason there is a hatred for the Cypherites is something that happend a year ago between the Machinists and the Cypherites. Since then, the Cypherites in question have either dispersed, died, or changed ideals. As for their tactics?
SonOfThree: Is that what you're going to tell rarebit when he shows up as grey with a task for us?
Shinryu: And I refer to you as sir as well, Mathalos. That does not mean you are a superior to me
Vinia: Saying Sir is a sign or respect in a command structure
Ballak: Their tactics remain the same. Not something that would seem morally right in a time of peace, but this is a time of war.
Mirmaker: Agreed Vin
Eleutherophobia: Does anyone from the Tetragrammaton want to make a comment on this issue?
Mathalos: You are an operative of the Machine organization.
Mathalos: Agent Gray does not follow your orders, you follow his.
Mathalos: This is not a co-existant, nor has it ever been.
Mathalos: We are employees, we get paid for our work.
Vinia: Precisely a COmmand structure that I agreed to go with for the benefit of both species
Tenshi916: Species?
Vinia: Without order there is Chaos
Vinia: Human and Machine, obviously
Narimiya: and without chaos there is bordum
Vinia: is that a View of all Cyphs Narimiya?
Dante21: No.
Narimiya: it is just a view
Vinia: Ok then
Narimiya: to take one view is madness
Starschwar: Although we choose to work with the machines...
Kybutra: The fact is you all will have to deal with us no matter what your views are.
Narimiya: if you cannot see all sides of a rubixcub one cannot atempt to complete it
Cadsuane: Sometimes there will be little choice but for us to work together. No matter how much some of us might personally be against it, there is going to have to be a certain amount of leeway.
Mirmaker: I will not help the Cyphs no matter what
Ballak: The Cypherites are a weapon, not one to be sheathed. They are to be thrust into the heart of our opponents, and to refuse your enemy such a blow is ridiculous.
Starschwar: That does not mean that we automatically agree with or comply with all of their directives.
Eleutherophobia: Can we hold on that a moment, folks?
Mirmaker: *Mirmaker nods.*
Eleutherophobia: This is what we need to clear up. Often, as a machinist, I have viewed the Cypherites as a sort of weapen, as Ballak stated. But at the same time, I can truthfully say that I did not consider them my colleague.
Eleutherophobia: I believe that this viewpoint is no longer really one that can hold water.
Narimiya: perhapse thats because you see your role as a job
Narimiya: instead of a calling
AnarchistAtHeart: Spoken like a true cyph.
Eleutherophobia: So what we need to clear up, in my opinion, is whether the machinists and the Cypherites will work as colleagues in any upcoming situation, or will be separate groups, only connected by a loose similarity in goals.
Mirmaker: Cypherism...the art of being reinserted has been proven false...why still follow it?
Eleutherophobia: GodTier will take the floor, please do not interrupt him.
Eleutherophobia: Her, excuse me.
GodTier: I'd just like to ask, why do we need to follow one goal? It's either, "let's try to work with the cyphs" or "let's not." Why can't you just... do your thing?
GodTier: Listen, being trapped in your little world is great and all, but let's not force it on everyone else.
GodTier: You don't want to work with the Machines? Okay, then go away. If you do, then great, do your job.
GodTier: Why so much drama?
GodTier: End.
Eleutherophobia: Cads, I'd like you to bring up what you just mentioned to me.
Eleutherophobia: It's a valid point that needs to be shared.
Cadsuane: A few people have questioned the validity of various other people's beliefs. I do not think this is the right place for that.
Cadsuane: People will believe as they will. We are here to decide how to recincile those beliefs in a mutually beneficial way.
Cadsuane: ahem, Reconcile.
Eleutherophobia: Quite. Regarless of tag, and more so, faction, let's allow people to speak simply as individuals.
Eleutherophobia: Regardless, even.
P4rv4ti: Thank you Eleutherophobia, I would hope I would not be excluded because of a tag.
Eleutherophobia: I do worry, GodTier, that continuing to "do [our] thing" will lead ultimately to a situation just like this, with clear tension.
Duffie: Well it seems there will always be tension..
GodTier: Why?
GodTier: Drop the tension. Stop the drama.
Dante21: Mir back there stated that.
Eleutherophobia: And without a centralized lead anymore, we cannot let this tension get in the way of our operations.
Mathalos: No one understands each other's way of thinking.
GodTier: Then don't try. Just do what you want to do.
Eleutherophobia: Which is exactly why we need everything discussed until we're all hoarse.
GodTier: Whether or not what you wanna do is helping is another thing, but we shouldn't stop you.
SonOfThree: (is this meeting RP or organizational?)
Mathalos: They think their way of thinking is the best and do not listen to anything else.
Cadsuane: (yes)
Eleutherophobia: (Litle of both, I'd say.)
GodTier: Then that, in heart, is the problem.
SonOfThree: (well pick on it will make things go faster)
GodTier: And I'm not RPing
Eleutherophobia: (Fine, organizational.)
Narimiya: the problem is apparant
Narimiya: its clear to see for all who would look
Mirmaker: ((Im always RPing unless I specify))
Narimiya: narcissism
Starschwar: ((I was under the impression that this was in character.)
Eleutherophobia: Hold on there, Narimiya. I don't think that is deep enough.
GodTier: I was under the impression that if I come to an org meeting I'm not forced to roleplay.
Cadsuane: (Honestly I don't think it makes a lot of difference.)
Eleutherophobia: (Indeed, feel free to stay in character, but in order to include those who aren't this is not officially rp only.)
GodTier: Cool. Thanks bro.
P4rv4ti: (being a machine is a role we play, isn';t it, not real life, hence isn't this by definition role play?)
Mathalos: People will become very disinterested very fast if they feel we are going nowhere.
Eleutherophobia: To make this simply about ego would be to claim that Cypherites and Machines are competing for a similar slot.
Narimiya: i do not refer to the relationship betwen the favored brothers and the outcasts
Narimiya: but the internal conflicting views within yourselves
P4rv4ti: I suggest there is a way to mutually benefit with cooperation, not trying to be one up in a certain spot.
Narimiya: how can you atempt to reconcile with us when you are not as one ?
Mathalos: If anyone has looked at our operation reports, the Machine and Cypherite reports are almost identical.
Narimiya: each in thier own corner and no one wants a dance partner
P4rv4ti: Indeed Mathalos
P4rv4ti: Lets use logic please, not emotion, emotions are sooo human
GodTier: I suggest that this discussion about Machines and Cyphs is... not exactly the issue here. RP aside, this is dramawhores vs. dramawhores. You'll see a lot of Mechs and Cyphs who reeaaally don't give a shit about "tension" between suborgs.
Starschwar: I'd like to address this, if that's okay.
AnarchistAtHeart: Can we get to the point of what this meeting was called for? This is going no where. Cyphs vs Mechs will probably never end because of the simple fact people hold grudges. The point is where are we going to go as an organization?
Starschwar: As I was saying...
Eleutherophobia: Please, let's let Starschwar speak for a moment.
Starschwar: Thank you.
Eleutherophobia: Then yes, we will have to move on.
Vinia: That's the point, how can we decide on a direction Organisationally when there are, in essense, two organisations
Starschwar: We aren't going to change eachothers' stances on Cypherism tonight. I could go on for hours about why I disagree with it, but that isn't the point. Although the Cypherites do engage in the same overall tasks as us, they have been and shall remain...
Narimiya: we are just two halves of the same pie
Dante21: I agree with Star.
Dante21: We know it all isn't going to change over night.
Narimiya: either way when zion takes a bite we both feel it
Starschwar: I hadn't finished...
Starschwar: Although we ultimately will be given orders by the Agents - and then choose weather to follow them, the Cypherites will still be under the leadership of Cryptos and Veil. So long as that command structure remains in tact, they will remain a fundamentally
Starschwar: seperate entity.
Mirmaker: Well said Star.
Narimiya: we are esentially the same starschwar
P4rv4ti: well said Star, also Gottier and anarchist
Eleutherophobia: I believe what he was saying is that we're all different.
Narimiya: once you cut through the crap we are both children of the machine, just we have spines, and the convition to follow through
P4rv4ti: I believe that with the re-organization, Veil and Cryptos will be in communication.
Ballak: Moving on?
Cadsuane: The important question, it seems to me, is can Machinists put their issues aside for long enough to work with Cypherites when necessary, and the same the other way around.
Mathalos: Sentience is.
GodTier: Indeed, operatives.
Nicho: Well as far as me and my faction. Yes.
AnarchistAtHeart: If it's beneficial at the time.......
Dante21: Som is ready to.
P4rv4ti: I believe (OOC) that some people will hold onto the cypher tag to be unique, not for any belief or conviction
Ballak: ffffff
Dante21: I have been here since the start, Along with Nicho, I don't plan on leaving.
Nicho: This is true, but some of us are loyal to the cause not just because of a tag.
AnarchistAtHeart: If it benefits me or true machinists at the time I will work with them, but I have no qualms about letting a cyph die.
Mirmaker: ...only if it is extreamly nessesary.
Narimiya: this tag you speak off is not some tinket to be removed
Eleutherophobia: Well addressed. I believe Beachhead has something to say.
Narimiya: it is branded into our essance
Nicho: The fact of the matter is if it is benefitial to the Machines and the Matrix.
Kybutra: Dante you were merv
Beachhead: The Machine organization has had meetings like this for years and often times accomplished nothing. People will think how they will for whatever personal, moral, or political reasons and everyone should simply accept that fact.
Dante21: Kyb, thats how we started out actually.
Shinryu: Very true, Beachhead
Nicho: That's the most important part.
Tenshi916: Sounds ignorant.
Narimiya: it sounds like youve alrread made uyp your mind brother beachedhead
Kybutra: You still were no cypherite at that time
Beachhead: The Cypherites wish to be a part of the machine organization. We can either continue to fight them while distancing ourselves from a possible ally agaisnt our enemies or we can take what they have to offer and work with them
Dante21: If you say so.
Narimiya: we do not wish it beachead
Beachhead: the best we can putting our differences aside when the time is right.
Narimiya: we are already well ingrianed in the fabric
Eleutherophobia: I think that is the best situation, Beachhead.
Nicho: It is.
P4rv4ti: hear hear Beachhead
Beachhead: Fact is we will continue to have this yearly bickering session with the Cypherites until we put a policy is put into place that will stay. This is how The Matrix works. We cannot change the entire population to accept any decision
Mathalos: Simply saying I refuse to work with Cypherites is not a step in the right direction.
Nicho: However, some of the Machinists hear know how me and my faction are
Beachhead: nor can the Cypherites force their way into the machinist civilization. This simply does not work. But we can work with them when the time is right.
Eleutherophobia: Okay, if we could hold for a moment, I'd like to get a vote on this situation.
Narimiya: there is no force
Narimiya: we come from the same seed
Kybutra: Vote for what
Eleutherophobia: With regards to what Beachhead said, if you believe this is the best situation, please raise your hand now. Provided that it isn't a 50/50 split, I think we can put this issue to bed for now.
Cadsuane: Aye. *raises hand*
Eleutherophobia: (/pointup)
Tenshi916: *Tenshi916 raises hand.*
Mirmaker: *Mirmaker raises his hand.*
Starschwar: A question for clarificaion, please.
Eleutherophobia: Sure.
Mirmaker: I.
Draqe: Da. *raises his hand*
Minnk: *Minnk raises her hand.*
Narimiya: you dont have a choice
Narimiya: the path has already been decided
Starschwar: THere's always a choice, Nari. As I was saying...
Cadsuane: Then why stay to interrupt our speakers?
Narimiya: when you come to realise this it wil be time to work together
Cadsuane: Hush, 'brother'.
Vinia: he is really starting to bug me
Narimiya: a discussion with 1 side serves no purpose
Narimiya: thats called a dictatorship
Starschwar: The choice is to accept that the Cypherites will be working with us, but they shall remain seperate from us, as it always has been?
Mirmaker: Next topic please
Eleutherophobia: Please restrain yourself, Narimiya.
Starschwar: If not, please correct me and I'll vote accordingly.
Narimiya: sister elu i asure you i am already doing so
Mathalos: Cypherites will be joining us for our organization meetings with Agent Gray or Pace.
Eleutherophobia: Yes - a non-enemy, rather than an actual enemy.
Mathalos: Cypherites will not be joining our operations in the field.
Eleutherophobia: Err...ally, I meant.
Mathalos: They will have their own.
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
Mathalos: So it will be like tonight, but with Agent Gray or Pace.
Veee: They will? I thought that was about to change.
Cadsuane: That, when necessary, Machinists and Cypherites will put their differences aside and work together.
RemixMike: cyph will no longer have events
Shinryu: We have stated our beliefs and there is little point in .. debating it further. We may as well move on to what comes next.
Mathalos: I have read otherwise.
Tenshi916: Cypherites will have events.
Nicho: Yes. What comes next.
AnarchistAtHeart: Agreed Shin.
Veee: Thanks.
Starschwar: ((Cypherites will have events, but will be joining the machine org meetings)
Eleutherophobia: Yes. And at this point, I really don't see any value to the Cypherites staying. Most of the following issues will not concern you.
Mathalos: They will still be contacted by Cryptos or Veil for field operations.
Eleutherophobia: While I am not forcing you to leave, you may very well find the rest of this meeting to be a waste of your time.
Kybutra: Then what was the point of us coming? just to hear you all bicker about not loving us
Dante21: We just have to give it time.
Vinia: You had your say did you not?
Nicho: I'd like to stay just to gain more knowledge about everything.
Cadsuane: Everyone has to have their say Kybutra, we didn't want to exclude you.
Eleutherophobia: The point of you coming was to give you a chance to state your case in the situation of working together.
Ballak: Should we have invited EPN and asked for their opinion as to why we're enemies still?
Eleutherophobia: No, Ballak. This was a serious issue, that isn't.
Narimiya: my vision shows me a time is comming where we will be working hand in hand, there will not be a segrigation of information. what is known to you will be known to us and known to us known to you
Ballak: EPN threats arn't serious? Okay.
Narimiya: so you are arguing a moot point
Nicho: *Nicho sighs on the E.P.N. comment.*
AnarchistAtHeart: Narimiya do shut up, please? Some of us don't want to lose braincells from your comments.
P4rv4ti: (saying moot point is redundant, in essence you said point twice)
Takuya: Your cypherite savior has arrived.
Kybutra: Welcome brother Takuya
Eleutherophobia: I would disagree, Narimiya, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Takuya: Greetings fellow cypherite operatives.
Cadsuane: Anyway, I believe we are ready for our next topic?
Takuya: Disgusting machinists.
Nicho: Yes. Next topic.
Vinia: Yes I can see us all working together nicely
Takuya: Yes, next topic.
Narimiya: moot
Narimiya: of little or no practical value or meaning; purely academic.
Takuya: The one where I call you guys RETARDED FOOLS.
Eleutherophobia: To move on, I'd like to specifically bring up the idea of a new organizational structure, now that the title of liaison has been resigned.
Takuya: Brother Tseng speaks the truth.
Narimiya: i suggest you upgrad eyour understanding
Takuya: Eleutherophobia. Shut your mouth woman. The time of woman making decisions on behalf of the human race has ended.
Takuya: Man is rightfully here to take it's place on top of all.
Tenshi916: Oh god.
Takuya: Especially all that is held dear.
WiIlow: .....Takuya
Takuya: Their privates.
Eleutherophobia: Takuya, that is horrible offensive, and I for one, will not stand for it.
Darkhawk1: *Darkhawk1 coughs *cough* [i]Ehem [/i] *cough*.*
AnarchistAtHeart: (( /ignore takuya ftw ))
Takuya: Commit suicide please.
Myfie: Everyone ignore the noob.
Myfie: please
Eleutherophobia: However, it is of no importance to our conversation of the issue at hand.
Shinryu: That is something I think we can all agree on, Eleuth
Takuya: Shinryu may I need to call on your woman to come and save you?
Takuya: If I was you, keep your mouth shut.
Takuya: Or I shall divulge information.
Myfie: ....
Myfie: takuya
Shinryu: *sighs*
Myfie: your a 10year old prick
Myfie: fuck off
Eleutherophobia: What I would like to hear is whether or not any of you have any plans for how you would like to see this organization structured.
Myfie: iight?
P4rv4ti: Takuaya, such comments are one reason that machinists do not want to consider working with cypherites. I suggest that if you do not want to work with machinists Takuya, you leave, do your own thing
Takuya: Operative, my name is Takuya.
Starschwar: ((/ignore is your friend, folks)
P4rv4ti: and do not disturb the meetings of others, simply to be an irritant
Mirmaker: Yes Takuya shut up.
Tenshi916: For the sake of moving along please just use the ignore command, insults aren't necessary.
Eleutherophobia: (Quite.)
Takuya: Make me punks.
Takuya: MAKE ME PUNKS.
Shinryu: Indeed, Tenshi
Mathalos: There should be no hierachy of power.
P4rv4ti: Good point Tenshi
Takuya: Mathalos speaks the truth.
Takuya: For Cyperites are already in control.
Eleutherophobia: Please, expound on that, Mathalos.
evalR: Amongst the Machinists, no one machinist should hold more say or power than another.
Takuya: We have spies in every machinist faction.
Mathalos: We are all Machinists of equal level in the organization.
Mathalos: We can not just simply say we are better than each other, so we should be higher up.
Nicho: I know I'm not a machinist, but I'
Takuya: All members of sentience are secretly cypherites.
Shinryu: For once I think I agree with you Mathalos *chuckles*
Takuya: They have cypherite families.
Narimiya: brother mathalos speaks the truth
Takuya: Look at mathalos.
Takuya: his brother is Royin.
Narimiya: the path is a level one
Takuya: A fellow Cypherite.
Narimiya: there is no tiers
SonOfThree: Put simply. No one in this room is neutral to everyone else in the room.
Mirmaker: if you would excuse me Cypherite scum. You are NOT Machinists
Nicho: I'd like to contribute. How about some sort of council?
Takuya: The council of elderly cypehrites.
Kybutra: gf
Takuya: For we are old and wise.
Tenshi916: Mir, please.
Cadsuane: While having no leader is fair, a lack of clear leadership would severely hamper us.
Myfie: scum?
Narimiya: mirmaker i beg to differ
Takuya: But can still kick butt!
RemixMike: stfu takuya
Narimiya: we keep the matrix safe as do you
Eleutherophobia: Please, I would like to hear Nicho.
Takuya: Shut your mouth machinist lover.
Narimiya: are we that differnt?
Mirmaker: Leave you are just a disgrace to the Machines
Ballak: No council. No superior decision making. Everyone has their own voice or opinion. We don't need liaisons to voice our own voices through. There is no hierarchy of power that needs to be made.
Nicho: It would. Which is why for you all's benefit a council might work.
Mirmaker: Takyua
Takuya: Yes Machinist scum
Shinryu: Yes, Narimiya, you are.. but that's not what we're discussing right now
Starschwar: ((Guys, if Takuya's bugging you, /ignore him. I did that months ago, and from what I can tell, life's been better.)
Mathalos: Vogt was here to relay information between the Machines and the Machinists.
SonOfThree: Having a leader will only cause issue as people politic for that position. and still others ignore that authority.
Mathalos: Now we have the information directly from the Machines.
Takuya: For WE ARE THE AUTHROITY.
Mathalos: Why do we need another leader?
Perreguine: ((Ditto'd.))
Nicho: Those that can promise and provide properly into the organisation should be apart of some kind of council.
Takuya: LOL
Mathalos: That makes no sense.
SonOfThree: no pun intended.
Takuya: I love this meeting, its phantastic. Isin't that right shinryu?
Cadsuane: Son of Three is right, but on the other hand we can hardly take a vote on every little thing.
Mirmaker: ((Takuya= /ignore))
SonOfThree: That's why we have factions
Mathalos: What decisions do we need to make?
Nicho: For instance, many of those that you see at EVERY meeting and discussions.
Mathalos: What decisions are left up to us?
SonOfThree: The over arching goals of the org will come from gray and the other clear leaders of the org
Mathalos: I can't remember the last time we had to make a decision.
Ballak: Why should those that happen to be at every meeting have any power over others that are not able to make it?
Narimiya: though brother takuya does have a touch of the madness he does illistrate a point, everyone has a diffent view, we need to take the view that acepts eachothers views not dicounts them
Eleutherophobia: I actually do agree with Nicho here. While I would like to keep
power as decentralized as possible, I do feel like simply for organization and intelligence gathering, we do need a select few that can keep tabs on everything.
Ballak: I disagree.
Narimiya: that is a relic of the past
Nicho: Which would be a HUGE responsibility.
Mirmaker: I suggest a council of sorts.
Mathalos: How it's always been done is information is relayed between faction leaders.
Narimiya: decentrilised power if the path
Cadsuane: Alright, picture this if you will.
Mathalos: And faction leaders relay the information to their members.
P4rv4ti: I think there are a few that keep tabs on everything, the question is, what and how do they share what they learn
Eleutherophobia: Cads has the floor.
Vinia: Hypothetical Situation: If Pace asks for 6 people to attempt a mission, who decides who goes?
Tenshi916: If you're going to do that, though it seems unnecessary, the only fair way would be to have an even number of representatives from each faction.
Narimiya: pace
Mathalos: She does.
Cadsuane: Ah, Vinia has it..
Ballak: Pace does.
Vinia: Not if she wants us to choose
SonOfThree: Vinia: Hypothetical Situation: If Pace asks for 6 people to attempt a mission, who decides who goes? <---pace does
Ballak: Like she always has.
Cadsuane: We get our missions from Gray but how that mission is achieved is often left to us.
AnarchistAtHeart: Council made up of faction leaders and maybe their SICs. That way each faction has a say in what is being disgusted and there isn't a giant clusterfuck like we have going on right now.
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
Cadsuane: Who approaches the bluepill?
Cadsuane: Who guards the roof?
Agent (shouting): Escape is impossible.
Cadsuane: Who assaults and who hacks?
Takuya: =[
Eleutherophobia: What would everyone think of having one official from each faction be that leader?
P4rv4ti: Having a council sounds awfully zionist.
Tenshi916: That can be decided amongst the team...
Ballak: On a council? No.
Mathalos: The people that Agent Pace wishes to contact, will be the people that Agent Pace wishes to contact.
Tenshi916: You don't need a council for that.
Narimiya: its the path to ruin
Ballak: Would they make decisions as a whole? No.
Takuya: MATHALOS
Takuya: SPEAKS
Takuya: THE
RemixMike: councils get curropted easyliy ;
Takuya: TRUTH
Cadsuane: This is just an example though.
Nicho: I think that is a good idea. Eleutherophobia.
Mathalos: Agent Pace isn't going to broadcast to us send me a list of operatives that you want to come with me.
Takuya: Courrpted noob.
Eleutherophobia: Narimiya, you are not a machinist, please, stop interjecting your comments. They are not beneficial.
Narimiya: absolute power corupts obsolutly
Nicho: What about the Machinists of the years?
evalR: People will volunteer for positions in that case then.
RemixMike: Narimiya: absolute power corupts obsolutly
evalR: It's also pretty dependant on the mission.
SonOfThree: Operate inside your own faction. If you wish to confederate with another faction do so.
Vinia: Previously Vogt has been asked to gather Operatives for missions. Pace did not ask for them by name. What if the same happens once again?
Narimiya: and its that ATTITUDE that makes me interject
Mirmaker: If I may make a suggestion.
Eleutherophobia: Please do, Mirmaker.
Vinia: but she asks all of us at the same time?
Ballak: Vogt is a completely different case.
Narimiya: you would gloss over anythign you do not agree with
SonOfThree: but don't pretend you're making choices for the whole organization
Narimiya: such a council would be of the same vain
Takuya: Vogt gave me all his info when he left
Narimiya: and will lead you into damnation
Nicho: By that contect you should be able to tell who could be and would be able to hold the responsibility of a "Council man/woman".
Nicho: contest*
Tenshi916: So, the council would be HostileIntention and....HostileIntention.
Mathalos: Activity would need to be high with that operative.
Tenshi916: =|
Shinryu: *chuckles*
Mathalos: Inside of the Matrix as much as outside of the Matrix.
Mirmaker: We at the moment are quite scrambled. I honestly do suggest that we have a counsil of some sort created by selected people from their faction to represent each faction and the leadership ideas would go through them and spread down to the Operatives.
Eleutherophobia: Yes, it would Mathalos. That would be aresponsibility of that position.
Mathalos: We can't have someone in charge that has no idea what is going on.
Cadsuane: Hear here.
Ballak: I don't think we need to have "someone in charge" at all.
Narimiya: i suggest you put me in charge
Narimiya: as i have no agenda
Cadsuane: Without leadership, we are not so much an organisation as a loose affiliation.
Nicho: I agree Mirmaker.
Mathalos: All we need are relays of information.
SonOfThree: ok let me put it to you this way
SonOfThree: if takuya gets voted leader of the machines
SonOfThree: are you following him?
Veee: No.
SonOfThree: exactly.
Shinryu: While using the Machinists of the year winners is a reasonable ground for selection of those who are trustworthy, it has the major flaw of not being representative of the whole organization
Narimiya: a council with selective terms is no council its called a sham
Mirmaker: Agreed Shin. Only proven Machinists should be selected to represent each faction.
Narimiya: a puppet show if you will
Shinryu: If we are to have some sort of council, we need equal representation
SonOfThree: machinist of the year won a popularity contest
SonOfThree: nothing more
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
SonOfThree: Im done.
Narimiya: where the script has already been written
Nicho: Right. PROVEN.
Narimiya: and we are all exspected to dance to
evalR: A council is a stupid idea.
Tesma: I do not believe in a council
evalR: One machinist in a position over another one is stupid.
Ballak: Even if they are the magic machinist of the year, month, or week.
RemixMike: gf
Cadsuane: Alright, how about this.
Eleutherophobia: Please, Beachhead has the floor for a moment.
Tesma: Inactivity happens all the time around here
Cadsuane: Oh. *waits*
Mathalos: I'm tired of seeing people that just jack in twelve times a year thinking their opinions are important around here.
Tenshi916: Indeed.
Beachhead: I was one of the machinist's of the year. And i refuse any such responsibility. As should any one person. My simple proposal is return to how it was before the liaisons. The faction leaders or selected representatives get together and make decisions
Narimiya: how many years ago?
Narimiya: times have changed big boy
Nicho: Amen.
Eleutherophobia: But wouldn't that be a council, itself?
Mirmaker: Agreed Beachhead
Mathalos: It's a structure of information relay.
Mathalos: Such is not a council.
Eleutherophobia: But really, that's all that was proposed.
Nicho: Well, by council that is what I meant.
Eleutherophobia: Indeed.
Nicho: Right.
Tenshi916: That's not a council.
Eleutherophobia: Right, I believe Cadsuane had something to say.
Cadsuane: Uhh, yes. Depending on people's definition of 'council' it might not matter but...
Ballak: The problem with that is the people who are faction leaders or selected representatives have control over the information, or whether or not they wish to disperse that information.
Cadsuane: Perhaps we could delay this decision until it is apparent what we need, if anything.
Ballak: And that can disclude anyone who isn't in the selected fanclub.
Cadsuane: Go on without a leadership for now and form one if it becomes apparent one is needed.
Mathalos: I know there have been a lot of problems with faction members not being informed.
AnarchistAtHeart: A council is not just an information relay. It would also be a way to address issues with other factions, direction on what to do about events, etc. There is much work that the council could do and make it much more structured.
Shinryu: Cads does have a point.. we may all be debating this for nothing
Mathalos: I've talked to operatives of other factions that had no idea that an operation was about to occur.
Mirmaker: Let us take a vote then to end this debate?
MysticTravi: We are, because one side will always be unhappy on the issue...
Mathalos: Since their 01 Network moderator didn't tell them.
Ballak: Exactly.
Eleutherophobia: Okay, everyone. Can we have a vote on this? I'd like individual factions to poll in /fc, then the leader to send me the results.
Mathalos: The people that were chosen to relay information didn't do their job.
Eleutherophobia: (Just in /tell.)
MysticTravi: Or because their 01 network moderator is non-existant..
Ballak: No.
Ballak: There shouldn't be a vote on this anyways.
Narimiya: such a vote shoudl be held in the public eye
Eleutherophobia: Yes, there should. Not all people agree on this.
evalR: What are we even voting on? Whether or not there's a council?
Shinryu: We have the makings of a pseudo council now, if we need it. If we don't then so be it. No harm no foul
Tesma: What are we voting for again?
evalR: That makes "Decisions"?
Ballak: A council is a stupid idea, and is just asking for a drama-bomb.
Cadsuane: This vote is on wether or not to shelve the idea of a council, isn't it?
Narimiya: in the depth of broadcast sent out to all ships
Eleutherophobia: Whether or not there is, at the very least, a group dedicated to keeping up-to-date on information, and sharing that information with the organization.
Narimiya: not decide behind closed door by one person
Mathalos: I have a problem with that.
Ballak: Sounds like 01Network. And trust me, a lot of people got the gip when it came to 01Network.
Ballak: I was one of them.
Ballak: So it's a real problem.
Eleutherophobia: Yes, Ballak. You disagree, we're no longer debating.
Eleutherophobia: Please, just vote.
Narimiya: why cant you just agree to bee open with eachother
P4rv4ti: If the zero one network were opened it would work
Narimiya: why do you need to reinvent the wheel
Mathalos: That will just turn into a few doing all of the work for everyone.
Cadsuane: Can there be a clear statement of what the vote is about so there are no misconceptions?
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
Eleutherophobia: Eleutherophobia: Whether or not there is, at the very least, a group dedicated to keeping up-to-date on information, and sharing that information with the organization.
Tenshi916: Council or no council
P4rv4ti: the exclusivity of it is what made communication only flow to selected favorites
Narimiya: define organizatio
Narimiya: is that by your interpration or they ssystems?
Nicho: If I were a Machinist, I'd vote for this "Council" but I'm not so, I'll keep my mouth shut and just give out suggestions.
P4rv4ti: Open the zero one network, you have the organization
Veee: Could someone please revive me?
Vinia: you gonna open Slumberil for us then?
P4rv4ti: The idea is to share the information, use the existing network
Veee: Thanks.
Eleutherophobia: One faction has already given me their voting results.
Tenshi916: Heh.
Eleutherophobia: Two.
Narimiya: i tried to vote no
Mirmaker: Cyphs have no vote
Narimiya: Eleutherophobia does not exist or is not online.
Nicho: Nope. WE don't.
Ballak: Sorry. But call it what you will. It just seems like to me now that Vogt is out of the picture, people that have come out of nowhere to place themselves in their own self-made positions of power. Power that is to traffic the information of when and how
Narimiya: this is what your facing berothers
P4rv4ti: I know you are trying to avoid the harassment, but secret voting is again excluding
Ballak: Live events will take place.
Narimiya: when your apinion does not match you will be stamped out
Narimiya: so do not bind yourself to the devil blindly
Mathalos: I just seeing this being abused.
Ballak: Exactly.
P4rv4ti: Agreed
Mathalos: Majority of the operatives relying on a select few to tell them everything.
Mathalos: While they sit back.
Eleutherophobia: If I missed it, I am sorry, but did the Tetragrammaton send me results?
evalR: I think all the relevant points have been made on this topic now.
Mathalos: So, if you don't put in the work yourself, don't expect someone to just hand you the information.
Mathalos: That's not going to happen anymore.
evalR: But I see a potential problem.
evalR: Say one faction doesn't want to participate in the council.
evalR: "Billy Joe's Machine Zerg"
evalR: They have a lot of active members but don't want to participate. What then?
AnarchistAtHeart: Ok, Mathalos we get the point, you hate it now can you please be quiet so we can hear the results and move on?
Narimiya: and thats why a council wont work
Veee: Damn it.
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
evalR: Nothing I can see will make people who don't want to follow this "council"'s will follow it.
Eleutherophobia: Hmm....it appears that one faction has voted unanimously no, another is against the formal use of a council, but is still for the idea of a pseudo-council (like the 01NET in place) and two are for it.
evalR: Thus it has no power, and it'll just be people saying things with self-appointed seats of power.
Eleutherophobia: I personally am for the council as well, but even without my opinion in place, I would call this a net victory for the pro-council idea.
Cadsuane: Alright, so this 'coucil' for lack of a better word has no power and has the responsibility of distributing information.
Narimiya: bullshit
Eleutherophobia: Yes.
Cadsuane: Any member who fails at this is replaced.
Cadsuane: thoughts?
Shinryu: eval does have a point. The "power" of a council would never work without full agreement of everyone
Starschwar: May I make an observation?
Eleutherophobia: Indeed. Total liquidity based upon say...one month terms?
Veee: Thanks.
Eleutherophobia: Star, then AnarchistAtHeart
Narimiya: elu said a 40/50 would not pass
Narimiya: but aparantly they hold the swing vote, clearly your be taking orders from them then
Starschwar: Well, Shin made it for me, really. It all comes down to the individuals. A council can't change the fact that we're all still going to be making our own decisions. And without a liaison or equivalent, any decisions made by the council will have little
Starschwar: overall effect.
Ballak: So, why have it.
Eleutherophobia: Because a majority voted for it.
Tenshi916: ...
Eleutherophobia: Anarchist, the floor is yours.
Nicho: Ok, but there has to be some kind of order for it all though.
Vinia: I thought it was a basic information distribution. Not decision making?
Shinryu: I suppose that is the nature of a vote...
Narimiya: Eleutherophobia: Hmm....it appears that one faction has voted unanimously no, another is against the formal use of a council, but is still for the idea of a pseudo-council (like the 01NET in place) and two are for it.
Narimiya: thats 50/50
Tenshi916: You can't be conditional on a yes or no vote.
AnarchistAtHeart: This council would not have any authority however if made up of the leaders they would be able to settle issues internally based upon the fact they represent the ideals of their members. Being such they will be able to voice opinions in a formal way not--
AnarchistAtHeart: a chaotic one like we have here. Not only for information relay.
Cadsuane: Alright, I move we shelve the idea of a 'council' and consider the idea of information-sharing.
evalR: This would simply be people appointed to share information between factions, right?
evalR: Not decide things.
Eleutherophobia: That, to me, is the most useful part of this council idea. The ability to get things done would be very nice.
Tenshi916: Which can be done without the need of a formal, rule-bound "council."
Eleutherophobia: Yes, we've decided that.
Narimiya: you have decided
Narimiya: that is clear to see
Nicho: Ok so how can the information be distributed?
Eleutherophobia: Through the factions themselves.
Mathalos: Who is going to be actively seeking out the information?
Nicho: Ok.
Perreguine: The way it should have always been done then? That's what we have factions for.
AnarchistAtHeart: The leaders recieve the information discuss it and relay it down the chain.
Narimiya: from who
Nicho: So all of the Machinist factions won't be united in any kind of way?
Ballak: Receive the information, how Anarchist? There is no more liaisons.
Narimiya: who do they recive the information, you cant have peoepl waiting for information with no one to look for it
Mathalos: You have to seek out the information.
AnarchistAtHeart: (( 01 liasons ))
Cadsuane: If information is handled in a solely factional manner then some factions may not recieve it.
Shinryu: We are united in overall purpose, if not exact method
Mathalos: You can't sit back and expect the information to come to you.
evalR: That's a perfectly reasonable idea.
Narimiya: you have to @find it@
Mathalos: Someone will have to get the information.
evalR: People who want to share information do so between their friends and other factions.
Nicho: What I mean is if one faction is behind on information then it is clearly up to them to pull themselves up from their boot straps?
Tenshi916: Yes.
Tenshi916: Each individual member, not some "council."
evalR: So, how are these people going to be put into their seats of information trafficing?
AnarchistAtHeart: If the 'council' is made up of faction leaders no faction will be behind on information.
P4rv4ti: Any how do they do that Nicho,
Nicho: Ok.
evalR: Faction leaders aren't always the most active members.
Cadsuane: Volunteers?
Mathalos: All faction leaders must put in the same time.
Mathalos: For it to be fair.
Eleutherophobia: Then their seats will be filled by more active members of the faction.
AnarchistAtHeart: If the faction leader is not present the next person in thier chain of command becomes the representative
Ballak: And who would decide that, Eleu?
evalR: I think the faction members should vote on someone in their faction to be in that position, and it be approved by the faction leader.
Eleutherophobia: If we may, it's becoming clear that this issue could take hours in itself, so can we move on for a short while?
evalR: That way information gets passed around much quicker.
Ballak: Move on to what, exactly Eleu?
evalR: Problem is, this still leaves the "little guys" out of the picture, doesn't it?
Tenshi916: or the factionless...
evalR: That would be the "little guys"
Tenshi916: <_<
Tenshi916: nuh uh
Narimiya: well elu got a vote
Narimiya: what about the other factionless?
Vinia: Ok, lets say we don't have anything and an Agent contacts you Mathalos. What happens then, you tell everyone else?
Narimiya: they anr as important i guess
Eleutherophobia: If I may: who has any issues that they would like to bring up. (Ones that have not already been discussed ad nausium.)
Mirmaker: I have none
AnarchistAtHeart: None here as of now.
Eleutherophobia: Tetra, SOCA, Sentience?
AnarchistAtHeart: We have none Eleu.
Eleutherophobia: Ach, and excuse me. Does anyone without a faction tag have anything they'd like to bring up?
Veee: I don't.
Tenshi916: How about what we brought up at the beginning of the meeting?
evalR: I don't think we need to touch that right now, Tenshi.
Eleutherophobia: No, see - that's already been brought up.
evalR: That should be something reserved for the forums, not here.
Eleutherophobia: Sorry Narimiya, I've ignored you.
evalR: Or through private channels.
Veee: What are you talking about?
Agent (shouting): You are not authorized in this area.
Agent (shouting): Escape is impossible.
evalR: Thing about problems between people/factions.
evalR: Not important for this discussion.
Eleutherophobia: If there's nothing else. I am afraid that I only see the discussion on a council, and that on the cypherites devolving into a pissing contest. I will be calling my mediation to a close here.
Cadsuane: Thank you Eleu for your time and effort.
Mathalos: Have a good evening, all.
Tenshi916: Good evening.
Shinryu: Evening, Mathalos
Darkhawk1: goodnight all
Nicho: This was good.
Mirmaker: Thank you Eleu, you did wonderful
Perreguine: Right Eleu, of course we'll be in touch if you need us. And it was good having you, of course.
Shinryu: Yes, thank you Eleuth for your time
Narimiya: sleep well sister
Veee: Thank you for holding this meeting.
Veee: Bye everyone.
Starschwar: Thanks for getting this together, Eluth.
Nicho: I'm envious of you Machinists.
Shinryu: *chuckles* Oh?
Cadsuane: Thanks for your input Nicho.
Narimiya: if any still have there ears about them i would like to say one last thing, if anythin i would hope you have seen if you dont follow the herd you will be thrown to the wolves
Nicho: Anytime. We should be assisting our "parents".
Nicho: And don't ask why I'm envious. The answer to that question should be obvious.
Shinryu: *shrugs slightly and smiles*
Shinryu: Shall we?
Shinryu: Evening, Cads, Drage
Cadsuane: evening.
Draqe: Evening.